Author Topic: [Damage calculations] Cavalry leg damage bonus  (Read 3117 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Joker86

  • Mad & Bad
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1226
  • Infamy: 324
  • cRPG Player
  • Why so serious?
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Companions
  • Game nicks: Joker86_TP
Re: [Damage calculations] Cavalry leg damage bonus
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2012, 02:21:09 am »
+2
I don't think you can EVER balance cavalry properly by only changing their stats.

First of all you need to take into concern two things while balancing stuff: first of all, you have to be sure that all classes on the server have the same average strength, which means that there must not be a class that's easier to play or more difficult to play, because this would be unfair. "But you can make a class that's difficult to play more effective, once mastered". That's right, but this is only balanced in single player, not in MP. It's fair for the particular players who invested a lot of time and effort to master the difficult class, but on the other hand every good player who would want to maximize his performance (and many do) would end up with this class, making it overrepresented and too dominating on the servers. On the other hand, the "easy" classes with a low skill ceiling would be underrepresented, destroying any "rock-paper-scissors-balance", which always needs equal numbers to work properly. The logical consequence is, that all classes need to be of equal effectivity on any skill level.

With this insight in mind, you have to think about cavalry: if you take a look on the server, you can see that cavalry is not effective because they are particularly good, or the class is particularly OP, it is ONLY that effective because the other classes suck so much in fighting cav. And it's not the problem of the classes themselves, it's their players!

They listen to music (and don't hear the horses coming), they autowalk after spawning like lemmings and robots, they don't stick together, they don't evade open fields, they don't stay defensively when the enemy has more cav, and most important they are not aware of their surroundings. I think cav is the class I die least to, and I am infantry. I can't say I can block manually, two, perhaps three hits in a row, then I am usually screwed. My skills suck. Still cav often enough tops the scoreboard. So it's not my skills, that make me so difficult to kill for cav, it's my behaviour.

And unless you don't fix the average behaviour of non-cav players on the servers, you will always have the problem of cavalry seeming too weak (when the non-cav players know how to fight cav) or cav seeming too strong (when a good cav players fights non-cav players who don't have a clue of how to be aware).

You can't fix the missing awareness of their targets by lowering the cav stats to a ridiculous point. You already see what heavy cav has to suffer from, and still I can't say "buff them", because in theory, against infantry who knows how to play, it would not be OP at all, but in reality, with the amount of headless lemmings on the servers, it would allow them to wreak havoc among the enemy team.

That's the point of the whole story. Make players be more aware of cav, and you will be able to buff cav to a resonable level again. But the less brain the average cRPG player has (or uses), the more weird nerfs you will have to suffer from.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 02:25:29 am by Joker86 »
Joker makes a very good point.
î saved for eternety (without context  :mrgreen:)

Offline n445

  • Knight
  • ***
  • Renown: 40
  • Infamy: 56
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: [Damage calculations] Cavalry leg damage bonus
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2012, 07:45:44 pm »
0
even though it can deflect/abosrd CUT damage. think of an awlpike to a knee.

1. pierce owns heavy armour
2. armoured horses have heavy armour
3. the legs dont have padding under the armour so all you get is direct contact after piercing through the horse,
4. realistic

thats why polearms were always so efficiant against cavs
just be smart on how you play and dont run into sharp objects.
its funny that when a patch gets released the people with the single digit IQ stand out. They are the ones who QQ about how they get killed so easy now when they cant even use simple guidelines...

DONT RUN INTO SHARP THINGS



BUFF CAV. Just because I'm a HA now. =D
01000001 01110010 01110100 01111001 01101111 01101101 01000010 01110010 01100101 01100111 01101101 01100001 01101110 00000000 000000000000000001000001 01110010 01110100 01111001 01101111 01101101 00000000 0000000001001001 01110100 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01001011 01110010 01101111 011011

Offline BADPLAYERold

  • Permanently Banned
  • **
  • Renown: 362
  • Infamy: 163
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: PRO
  • Game nicks: BADPLAYER
Re: [Damage calculations] Cavalry leg damage bonus
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2012, 09:13:53 pm »
0
heavy horses should reduce have less upkeep since the damage deal to legs by melee users is ridiculous

Edit: The legs damage bonus against CAV has gone very badly, 1-2 hits from legs is enough to kill 90% of heavy horses's health, buff them back to where they were before!

now heavy CAV is only good to fight against archers and they suck so bad against melee players since their horses can die from 1-3 hits

I use a Champion Cataphract and it's fine.

(speaking as a lancer that is.. for 1h/2h cav not so much but it's always been bad for those classes)

Offline Digglez

  • Duke
  • *******
  • Renown: 573
  • Infamy: 596
  • cRPG Player
  • YOU INCOMPETENT TOH'PAH!
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Northmen
  • Game nicks: GotLander, Hamarr, Digglesan, Black_D34th
Re: [Damage calculations] Cavalry leg damage bonus
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2012, 09:16:49 pm »
0
I use a Champion Cataphract and it's fine.

(speaking as a lancer that is.. for 1h/2h cav not so much but it's always been bad for those classes)

no its never been bad for 1h until NOW.  Armored horses could often get reared and hit by multiple 2h'ers and still get away.  Now all it takes is 1 rear or a good side swing of any weapon to kill the horse.  Not only is it unrealistic its unbalanced. 

You wouldnt know because you use a 190 reach weapon
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 10:08:16 pm by Digglez »

Offline _Tak_

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 459
  • Infamy: 195
  • cRPG Player
  • Retired Dev of FI2
    • View Profile
    • mod :D
  • Game nicks: LC
Re: [Damage calculations] Cavalry leg damage bonus
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2012, 09:49:18 pm »
0
I use a Champion Cataphract and it's fine.

(speaking as a lancer that is.. for 1h/2h cav not so much but it's always been bad for those classes)

(click to show/hide)

Offline Joker86

  • Mad & Bad
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1226
  • Infamy: 324
  • cRPG Player
  • Why so serious?
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Companions
  • Game nicks: Joker86_TP
Re: [Damage calculations] Cavalry leg damage bonus
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2012, 10:28:50 pm »
+1
Currently not lamellar west wearing, katana swinging Ninjas are the Ninjas of the battlefield, cavalry is. Their gameplay boils down to attacking enemies who are not paying attention, and to survive by not gaining attention at all.

As the community - like I have described above - makes it really easy for cavalry, I think with the current state of the game on the servers, with all those lemmings, fragile horses are okay. As long as it is possible to easily kill half a dozen unaware players per round who won't defend themselves at all (because they are unaware, derp) you don't need to have tough horses.

Make infantry players concentrate on cav more, and I will support BOTH, lower upkeep and tougher horses. But with the current state of the game, where I have to write every round to watch out for cav, and to wait until the enemy cav is down before you charge, and still seeing dozens of players being lanced in their back - or even worse, from the front! - without a single other enemy nearby who could have apllied as distraction and thus as an excuse, I don't think you deserve a single tiny buff  :wink:  :P
Joker makes a very good point.
î saved for eternety (without context  :mrgreen:)

Offline BADPLAYERold

  • Permanently Banned
  • **
  • Renown: 362
  • Infamy: 163
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: PRO
  • Game nicks: BADPLAYER
Re: [Damage calculations] Cavalry leg damage bonus
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2012, 11:17:48 pm »
-1
No it's not fine. Before the nerf heavy horses can at least take few hits before they actually die. Now 1 hit can kills 30% or even 60% of your horse health. You were a lancer ofc but try to charge into melee cluster F***. most horses won't come out alive in there because just 1-2 hits is enough to bring down even a plate charger. (Note that i am talking about the hits to the horse's legs. Using a lance can avoid being stab or slash but when you try some of the suicide charging you will notice that there is a big nerf to the horses's legs.

You are the person this nerf was supposed to affect, the people who suicide charge the enemy get a kill then get away with their horse still alive. Doing this takes 0skill and is frustrating to other players so i'm mostly glad it was nerfed.

no its never been bad for 1h until NOW.  Armored horses could often get reared and hit by multiple 2h'ers and still get away.  Now all it takes is 1 rear or a good side swing of any weapon to kill the horse.  Not only is it unrealistic its unbalanced. 

You wouldnt know because you use a 190 reach weapon

I've played 1handed/2handed cavalry before and after the horse leg nerf (though only with 1wpf after to test how it was) and honestly for me not much has changed, I don't charge into people expecting to get hit I only attack if i'm sure I won't get hit which often means just attacking from behind if i'm not using a lance..
I understand it's bad for 1h/2h cavalry but you just gotta change your playstyle, realise you won't kill most aware enemies and that you are more of a support.

Offline rustyspoon

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 794
  • Infamy: 164
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: Rustyspoon, Sir_Rusty_Of_Spoon, Rusty_the_Spoonarian
Re: [Damage calculations] Cavalry leg damage bonus
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2012, 11:36:44 pm »
0
I've played 1handed/2handed cavalry before and after the horse leg nerf (though only with 1wpf after to test how it was) and honestly for me not much has changed, I don't charge into people expecting to get hit I only attack if i'm sure I won't get hit which often means just attacking from behind if i'm not using a lance..
I understand it's bad for 1h/2h cavalry but you just gotta change your playstyle, realise you won't kill most aware enemies and that you are more of a support.

I've been doing a lot better as 1-handed cav after switching horses. I currently use the Steppe horse and in 1 level I'll be using the Arabian Warhorse. If your horse is going to go down in 1-hit anyway, might as well use one that's easy to maneuver out of the way at a moment's notice.

UPDATE: The Arabian Warhorse is fantastic.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 01:00:00 pm by rustyspoon »
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline _Tak_

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 459
  • Infamy: 195
  • cRPG Player
  • Retired Dev of FI2
    • View Profile
    • mod :D
  • Game nicks: LC
Re: [Damage calculations] Cavalry leg damage bonus
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2012, 11:44:35 pm »
0
humm
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 12:34:18 pm by AlexTheDragon »