Damage penalty while backpedaling

[Gurnisson]

I wouldn't mind having a bit larger boost for offensive play, but I don't think that the backpedaling damage should be lower than it already is. I can just imagine maulers in plate laughing at people bouncing off when they one-hits with the maul.

[Adamar]

More offensive playstyle, less teamplay.

[Christo]

just remove all polebundle of stickss or increase the str difficulty for polearms significantly and tadaaaaaaaaaaaaa, no more backpedalling spastic agiwhores

In before you'll rage from being instakilled by high-STR Polearm chars.

[Pandor_Archer]

Let's face it. Backpedaling is and has always been a very powerful playstyle.

And with the current speed of the game and skill of the average player its usefullness only continues to rise.

I'm not saying it cannot be beaten, or that it doesn't have its disadvantages, but it is strong, and above all, imo, very boring.

In the past there have been threads/posts suggesting movement speed nerfs for backpedaling but that shouldn't be tampered with imo. Backpedaling should remain a viable defensive measure and when it comes to the movement speed in itself I at least feel that it's just about right.

What I would like to see though is less reward in the offensive department for backpedaling. Currently you have the speed bonus yes, but most of the time that works in favor of the backpedaler since his enemy will be moving towards him.

What I suggest is a flat damage increase/decrease depending on your speed and direction of movement.

This would encourage a more offensive style of play, both in duels and in battle. I feel the rewards for it are lacking in both currently. By going on the offensive you expose yourself to all manner of nastiness such as increased damage from arrows/attacks due to speedbonus, kicks, getting surrounded, etc and that's all fine but what's lacking are the rewards imo.

Currently the main reason for going really offensive on someone (read: backpedalers) in a duel/battle is because you want to actually get in contact with him, but you'll always be at a definitive disadvantage. and this is a bit silly imo.

The penalty for moving backwards should be bigger than the bonus for moving forward btw.

Other reasons why I'd like to see this change:

1. Buffing short weapons. They're horribly underused.

2. Buffing agi. Increased acceleration would mean that agi builds could make more use of the feature.

3. More damage vs. runners.

4. Rewards *good* teamwork. Making decisive pushes would have more of an effect.

5. Adds something to the movement in combat rather than just "outrange, outrange, outrange".

6. Kicking, standard outranging and other defensive techniques would still be perfectly viable,  while reducing the effect of the s-key + spam.


Problems I initially see with this:

1. Group fighting. Fighting a group as a single guy would be much harder.

2. 1h, they'll probably become too powerful.

3. Powering up the run away thensuddenlyturn-technique.

4. I have no clue of how to do it or if it's even possible with a sane amount of effort.


Comments? Like/dislike? Suggestions?

(click to show/hide)

From a realistic standpoint (even thoguh that shouldn't really be considered for game balance), this could represent inertia, momentum and the awkwardness of fighting while moving backwards.

backpedeling must be nerfed, agree, buf agi??? no way... nerf 1h? why omg ...

[Brrrak]

No.

And this is coming from a guy who hates backpedalling so much...[insert your own hyperbole here]

[Tigero]

Just add more inertia and make it so that naked spammers get affected about as much as ppl with 9 WU of armor or something. Decreasing backpeddel speed would just make greyt maul super OP.

[Son Of Odin]

I hate it when I go to duelserver and someone only runs away from me. Couple of dudes playing "ninja style" (meaning nothing like the style of few skilled ninjas) and not even backpedalling but shamelessly just running away and then "suddenly" turning and jump slashing at me. Dont get me wrong I backpedal too and dodge some swings, but hell I just don't get that "run away for 100 meters and surprise that guy who has been chasing you with the same swing you have been holding for 2 minutes"- style. If someone pulls that crap on me, I just simply go passive my self. I start standing still and make the runner attack or just leave the whole duel because it is not relevant to my interests. I don't usually swing when I take a few steps back. I think I'm usually hitting when going forward or sideways. With long war axe there is usually no reason to backpeddle spam, it doesn't work that way. Some weapons like Glaive or Long hafted blade on the other hand are magnificent for it and even a noob with high athletics build can score a few kills with it . It is annoying but nabs have to have their kills too, mkay?

[Thomek]

Finally someone acknowledging the power of weapon range. +1

Short weapons are underused.

[Leshma]

Buff katana!

[Kafein]

Finally someone acknowledging the power of weapon range. +1

Short weapons are underused.

Thing is, (except if your opponent can read the future and has perfect timing) agi, ath and light equipment compensate a lot for a lack of weapon reach, and act in a similar way when you just do the forward/attack/backward thing. I've seen many long weapon users being "outreached" by ninjas simply because they didn't have the control of the distance between the players. Top speed isn't the main factor, but acceleration is.

[Thomek]

Well because it is a necessity to be quick with a short weapon.. If you would go Katana Ninja with a STR build everyone would just spam you from distance. If you use a long weapon you are free to choose either STR or AGI builds. Both are viable.

[Cyclopsided]

Well because it is a necessity to be quick with a short weapon.. If you would go Katana Ninja with a STR build everyone would just spam you from distance. If you use a long weapon you are free to choose either STR or AGI builds. Both are viable.

I really like 27/12 with short weapons like katana. Sure, I might have to block twice to get in attack range -- but then I have huge attack speed and damage bonuses over them.
Stuff like 36/3 can't get in proper range with short weapons though. I still do beastly with 33/6 1h though.

back on topic -- There are penalties in place for backpedaling already. You may have to adjust your fighting style to take advantage of them though
Players move much slower when backing up, guaranteeing anyone with 5 athletics can ALWAYS catch a backpedaling player unless they very literally have 10+ athletics
When you backpedal away from someone, you suffer a big damage penalty from a negative speed bonus. If the enemy is chasing you, your relative character speeds = 0 though, so that penalty is negated.

So how do you counter a backpedaler?
*You chase them and catch them, and it is no different than fighting with both of you standing still.
*You don't chase them, and as soon as they step back towards you, you also step towards them and get a crazy damage bonus and murder them! Or they run away, in which case -- Why do you care?

[Son Of Odin]

I really like 27/12 with short weapons like katana. Sure, I might have to block twice to get in attack range -- but then I have huge attack speed and damage bonuses over them.
Stuff like 36/3 can't get in proper range with short weapons though. I still do beastly with 33/6 1h though.

back on topic -- There are penalties in place for backpedaling already. You may have to adjust your fighting style to take advantage of them though
Players move much slower when backing up, guaranteeing anyone with 5 athletics can ALWAYS catch a backpedaling player unless they are like... 9/30 build.
When you backpedal away from someone, you suffer a big damage penalty from a negative speed bonus. If the enemy is chasing you, your relative character speeds = 0 though, so that penalty is negated.

So how do you counter a backpedaler?
*You chase them an catch them and it is no different than fighting with both of you standing still.
*You don't chase them, and as soon as they step back towards you, you step towards them and get a crazy damage bonus and murder them! Or they run away, in which case -- do you care?

Str build with Katana was surprisingly viable. I dueled with Vibe and he picked a katana from the ground and kicked my arse so many times. It is brutal to get 2 hit from katana body hit. Even if his build is 27? str his swings were so fast I wasn't always able to see where they came from and neither did he . Sorry Thomek but I call your post bullshit. I couldn't keep my distance with 6 athletics and I think Long war axe is long enough to prove the point. I just simply didn't have the time to move away from his range because his swings were so fast and he easilly blocked my attempts to outrange him.

[Thomek]

Go try it in battle then.

An attack, or a chambered attack is also a defense. As long as it is held, the enemy cannot attack, only feinting is safe. No one is afraid of a weapon that cannot reach them. I guess you also have a STR build if you could never outrange him. Hell you could have just jumped backwards to get a free hit chance. (ofc.. he can block when he's outranged. The point is that with a longer weapon you can break the block-hit-block rythm at will, giving you an extra attack.)

Also if you got spammed there has to be something wrong with your ping or the network connection to vibe.

[Digglez]

the majority of a swing's power comes from having the feet planted and 'pushing' off the ground, which isnt possible while walking backwards.  backpedal swings would be no different than if you were sitting in a chair swinging your weapon, its all based on upper body strength which pales in comparison to a planted swing.

swings will walking backwards should receive between 25% - 50% dmg penalty for realism/physics