Author Topic: Need training  (Read 4846 times)

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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Need training
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2012, 04:28:17 pm »
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My 1v1 skills are noob at best.... yet i have much experience in gvg across many games and can see already the potential in this. I have commanded 60+ in pvp engagements before and this game takes the cake with strategy possibilities.

Looking at the videos i can find of big battles though i must say that most still seem undisciplined. Cant wait to join a faction, or something, for some strat gvg battles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgGrZYu0TII

This is one strategus battle I know of where the side I was on had really good in game organization and tactics.  If you are trying to compare real life formations and tactics you will never get that in crpg or warband.  You can get close, but you'll never be as fluid as a group as you could be in real life.  That is why cavalry is pretty dominant because infantry isn't shield to shield, spear to spear at all times.

The battle doesn't start til 1:10 in (it respawns once before the battle).

P.S. Brag Alert:  It's hard to see, but I got the first kill in this battle.  I was cavalry pushing their infantry from the left and couched someone on the side, and as our infantry met theirs our cavalry were basically riding in and out of the enemy infantry line (slightly behind them as we pushed in from both sides).

P.S.S.  I loved UO before pub-16.  making Trammel wasn't horrible, nor was t2a, but when they started making everything in your backpack able to be "noobified" it went to shit.  not to mention all the new lands and classes, was all downhill from there.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 04:33:54 pm by CrazyCracka420 »
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Offline Cyclopsided

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Re: Need training
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2012, 08:47:57 pm »
+1
okay.

After practicing with the bot on normal (veternal fighter) for about 2 hours i then went into battle mode ... was just dicking around but i did notice that my percent of blocking increased from about 10-15% to around 30%, pleased with the results but seeing that my mind could see what i needed to do but hands lack the finess to express that concept i found my self very frustrated. Not in a discouraging way at all but in a way that made me realize how good this system actually is.

The reason more people don't play this game is because it requires a lot of real skill...

So good... but omg..... sooooo mad..... Not at people, just... at my brains inability to learn faster better STRONGER
You're going about things the right way. This is how you should feel.
Blocking is mostly muscle memory. After some practice, you'll get to the point where you don't have to think about which direction to block. Just stick with it for a while. Duel is good practice for blocking, since it only takes about ten seconds after dying to get started on a new duel. Just be sure to take a break if you find yourself becoming unreasonably frustrated.

Personally, I played siege rather than battle when I was first learning the game. Getting killed within the first minute of a three minute battle isn't really much fun.

The real frustration starts when you get decent at blocking, but you haven't quite figured out footwork ('What? How did he hit me? I swung first!'). Keep practicing, and you'll get past that too.
Quoted for truth -- this guy is the best NA dueler by far. It is all about learning the basics WITHOUT learning bad habits. Blocking and attack directions will drop out of conscious thought. You want that to happen. Your subconscious has a lot better reaction time and is more reliable anyways. It's all about learning things the right way. Detraining bad habits.... oh god it sucks. Let me put this in perspective.
I switched from regular attack/block directions to Inverted attack directions (regular block directions). I had to detrain how I learned to play. Chambering, every little skill, and relearn it. I was worse for about 2 months form that change, but 2 months later I was better than when I made the switch.
Don't go through 2 months of trying to cancel out bad habits.
Here is probably the two biggest things you NEED to get as good habits NOW when you start but nobody tells you.
1. LISTEN for the block sounds. Do not SEE that you blocked an attack. You attack back as soon as you HEAR the block sound.
2. When you see someone start an attack, you don't JUST block in that direction. At the same time, hit the movement direction Opposite of their sideswing. They have an attack coming at you from the right? You block right AND move left. And if they mess up their footwork badly enough (and you don't), You can actually swing on them before they hit you... But you'll get to that later.

My 1v1 skills are noob at best.... yet i have much experience in gvg across many games and can see already the potential in this. I have commanded 60+ in pvp engagements before and this game takes the cake with strategy possibilities.

Looking at the videos i can find of big battles though i must say that most still seem undisciplined. Cant wait to join a faction, or something, for some strat gvg battles.
Everyone is extremely undisciplined in large scale battles. 99% of people who play this game do not work in cohesive teams when they play in battle servers. What makes you think their individual footwork habits/ fighting styles (WHICH ALL VARY GREATLY) are going to mesh with teammates in large scale close quarter teamwork fights?
You'll learn this: People never let go of their movement keys for more than a second. Ever. That is really bad when you are trying to have formations. People don't know how to move as groups. SO when they actually do it, they tend to get slaughtered by enemies who are just moving chaotically like a normal battle...
The funny thing is the buddy system or a 3 person combat squad is the most effective thing in battle. So much you can do, cover each others' weaknesses, etc. Time attack so people die if they retaliate. Block for a teammate as he completes an attack into the guy attacking him. Crazy stupid amazingly effective stuff. All of which transfers over into formations.
So to you: Find a buddy. Play with them a lot and become a good team. You'll terrify every good player in the server after a while. They'll run away from you knowing they have no chance alone.



Idea!: Create videos on how to get good at things while minimizing bad habits.
Project for next week.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 09:03:02 pm by Marathon »
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Offline engurrand

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Re: Need training
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2012, 11:36:46 pm »
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Nice reply.

Hey, i know what you are saying about the non cohesive members. Yes they are good at dueling and can own 1v5 often, but they cannot work as a large team. In truth these are the ideal people you want in a group setting. I use to lead battles in BF2 Project Reality mod, and the skilled players there were ultra skilled by them selves, outperforming 10 men at times (if not more). I have developed a method of leading that i call "Release the hounds" that is just for these types of players and it is highly successful.
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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Need training
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2012, 12:48:20 am »
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I remember some of the first battles in first strat, back when they were still all about infantry, with no ranged rape - had some really good, disciplined battles there. No tight formations, but infantry forming a loose line in melee and being effective, with shielders, 2hers and pikers working in unison. Most fun i have had in this game :)

Unlikely to happen again, though, ranged power breaks up cohesive infantry really fast. :(

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: Need training
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2012, 12:49:00 am »
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There are melee only servers.
I'm not normal and I don't pretend so, my approach is pretty much a bomb crescendo.
Death is a fun way to pass the time though, several little bullets moving in staccato.
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Offline Nagasoup

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Re: Need training
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2012, 07:45:53 am »
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shadow-bane and UO for mmorpgs..

hell yeah!

wish there were more good mmos instead of the carebear themeparks we have now

Offline Zerran

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Re: Need training
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2012, 08:00:34 am »
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The funny thing is the buddy system or a 3 person combat squad is the most effective thing in battle. So much you can do, cover each others' weaknesses, etc. Time attack so people die if they retaliate. Block for a teammate as he completes an attack into the guy attacking him. Crazy stupid amazingly effective stuff. All of which transfers over into formations.
So to you: Find a buddy. Play with them a lot and become a good team. You'll terrify every good player in the server after a while. They'll run away from you knowing they have no chance alone.

Working in small groups is also just absurdly fun. It feels good when you take out a few guys in a round and help the team. It feels crazy awesome when you team up with a few guys and plow straight through the enemy team. This is the biggest reason I love to play as a support class. A lot of people prefer to be good duelists and run around with a 2H so if they get in a 1v1 fight they can probably win, but to me what feels so much better is seeing an ally about to get their head cleaved in two and jumping in to kill their attacker and save them.

Even if you don't feel comfortable joining a clan yet, try running with them some when you're in battle and try to help them out.
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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Need training
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2012, 12:58:39 pm »
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hell yeah!

wish there were more good mmos instead of the carebear themeparks we have now

(click to show/hide)

On topic, I think its really important that you just enjoy the game. Playing simply for the sake of getting better might burn you out, just concentrate on having fun and you will naturally play more so will get better over time anyway. I like battle because it feels like you have more to lose when you die and you can get some nice tactical feel to fights. When you get to level 31 I recommend retiring and selling your loom point (get at least 500k gold, up to ~600k). Keep retiring until you have about 3 +3 items, gloves, body armour and a weapon. Gloves + body armour looms give you +10 body armour. You can retire as much or as little as you like but I've had enough of that now after 5 gens, now I will just keep my guy at a high level. You never have to retire if you don't want to, but it might take a while to get some nice items
If you have ranged troubles use this:

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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Need training
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2012, 12:59:22 pm »
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There are melee only servers.

That have 30 players on at most. Not the same thing.

Offline engurrand

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Re: Need training
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2012, 05:14:22 pm »
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« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 05:17:03 pm by engurrand »
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Offline Jarlek

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Offline engurrand

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Re: Need training
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2012, 09:36:56 am »
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So i have been using mouse to block and keyboard direction to attack, i tried out mouse attack but it's confusing...

But then i tried out inverse mouse attack.... It is much much better, it seems. Will take a bit to get used to but i think that this will help a lot.
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Offline Cyclopsided

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Re: Need training
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2012, 10:08:42 am »
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So i have been using mouse to block and keyboard direction to attack, i tried out mouse attack but it's confusing...

But then i tried out inverse mouse attack.... It is much much better, it seems. Will take a bit to get used to but i think that this will help a lot.
I use inverse attack directions. I think they are fundamentally better. Your attack is already turning in the direction to hit faster.
However chambering is a lot harder with inverted
Also, I have declared myself #1 NA hybrid thrower
Formerly known as Marathon.
As an NA admin, I am the most laid back and concerned with the ~fun of the game~ above all other factors. I've also been super inactive since Summer 2012. University takes most of my time, but I still find some time to play when i can.

Offline Kherr

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Re: Need training
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2012, 05:20:42 pm »
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I use inverse attack directions. I think they are fundamentally better. Your attack is already turning in the direction to hit faster.
However chambering is a lot harder with inverted
I tested it today a few hours. It's very hard, if you are used to normal mouse directions... So far it worked best with spamming cause of the correct/fast direction. I will test it a few days. Imho you are basically right. (Luckily only one teamkill so far... damn...)

Offline engurrand

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Re: Need training
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2012, 08:47:32 am »
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So i officially consider my self a "noob now"

up until this day i was simply below a noob, couldn't really control my self. I was wetting my bed.

I did EVERYTHING this thread told me i should do, and in the end i want to add that disabling "precision point" for windows mouse helped my game soooo much.

Now that i am an official noob, i thought i would let everyone know that i am now seeking "real" training.

Main training i need is in timing tricks and foot work. Someone told me "just do it lots and you will get it over time" but there is a lot of potential in foot works and timing and i dont want to get into bad habits / overlook something. However, i'm not looking for your standard "move the mouse and use keyboard to make your swing faster" help, i'm looking for in depth THEORY behind foot work for attacking, and defense.

Since i have started to pay attention to peoples foot work i see there are some fancy moves they use... This one dude i noticed he would duel regular, but he had a 'special move' that he would do.. He would charge with a left swing, and keep running past my right side, and then he would stab and keep running past me but turn around at the right time to stab me in the face, got me multiple times. I realized that this was a "simple move"... I dueled him again and used it on him and he died. I know there are a lot of other "moves" out there....

>...

But i'm looking for someone to talk with me in depth theory behind foot work and timing for defense and attack.

« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 08:49:00 am by engurrand »
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