Author Topic: Cavarly is broken  (Read 8501 times)

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Offline dodnet

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Re: Cavarly is broken
« Reply #60 on: February 04, 2012, 03:29:08 pm »
Cav are balanced. There are simply to many of them (makes it crap to play cav now...to crowded).

This. I stopped playing cav, its more fun killing these suckers now  :twisted:
The logic of war seems to be that if a belligerent can fight he will fight.

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Offline Rumblood

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Re: Cavarly is broken
« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2012, 03:30:21 pm »
Cav are balanced. There are simply to many of them (makes it crap to play cav now...to crowded). Simple solution is fixed ranged. It was obvious that if ranged got nerfed then cav numbers would explode.

Cav already costs a shit ton. Besides...upkeep changes don't actually make a difference, all I'd have to do is sell 1 loom point to play it happily for several gens. Marketplace wooo.

Except the argument was the one you just made. "Ranged is balanced, there is just too many of them."

Cavalry does not cost a shit ton. You can create a gen 1 character and afford to start riding as soon as you can level up to the riding requirements. You make money very effectively all the way through the mid-level horses and gear, which in themselves are Top Tier as far as the game goes. The only thing that costs a ton is the "Armored Tank" build that nothing can scratch.

That is the real issue in a nutshell. All other classes have an effectiveness range that starts out as "Useless" or "Gimp" through mid-tier that gets to "Decent" or "Damn Good" and up to "Great" or "Awesome".
Cavalry has an effectiveness range that starts out as "Decent" or "Damn Good"  through mid-tier that gets to "Great" or "Awesome" to the upper end that is "Godly" or "UnStoppable".

Perhaps that is exactly how the developers have envisioned this class, and to a large degree I can agree with that concept. However, we need to really restrict who can use it and upkeep just isn't cutting it. We have to come up with some ideas outside of what we are doing now. That means, don't suggest something about the class itself, but about how we can ensure that it is a strong class on the field, but also very limited in population.

Some thoughts on this:

I don't think that a Gen 1 character should be able to use a horse. I realize that some people have never retired and this thought will be unpopular with them. There should be some mechanism to address that issue for clear veterans of c-rpg. The other group that it will be unpopular with is of course new players. Sorry, I think you should have to level up to 31 in a different class before being allowed to retire/respec into the most Elite Class in all of c-rpg.
This would limit cavalry to players who understand their role and the impact of things they do on their own team (like team bumps).

Limit Cavalry class to Main's only.
This would ensure that if you see someone on a horse, it is because they dedicated themselves to the build. Cavalry on a lark should go away. (I'm an archer, if I want to go lancing, then I need to retire and devote myself to doing it, not just whip up an alt or STF character and run  around destroying shit)

I think you see the direction I'd like to take this. Make Cavalry an Elite class, yes. The 99% are NOT the Elite.
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Offline Tzar

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Re: Cavarly is broken
« Reply #62 on: February 04, 2012, 03:31:43 pm »
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline _Tak_

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Re: Cavarly is broken
« Reply #63 on: February 04, 2012, 03:34:52 pm »
stop wining about things, if you want everything completely balance go back to native. i don't want to see this mod that nerf every single class, you are just not smart enough to fight against cavalry imao

Offline Overdriven

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Re: Cavarly is broken
« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2012, 03:36:33 pm »
Except the argument was the one you just made. "Ranged is balanced, there is just too many of them."

I don't think that a Gen 1 character should be able to use a horse.

And the nerf to deal with that was still idiotic...the ladders removal would have fixed it.

It doesn't even require increasing damage against inf with ranged. All it needs is buffing ranged damage against horses. The current problem is that all you need is a destrier, hell even a courser/arabian and you're practically immune to any form of ranged damage. All you really have to worry about is other cavalry if you're smart against inf.

Ur what? A decent horse already costs 20k. Adding everything that comes with it already makes affording any cav build a big goal for 1st gens.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 03:38:09 pm by Overdriven »

Offline moorane

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Re: Cavarly is broken
« Reply #65 on: February 04, 2012, 03:36:52 pm »
Make Pike/Long Spear 2 Slot again, Problem solved...

Offline Rumblood

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Re: Cavarly is broken
« Reply #66 on: February 04, 2012, 03:37:29 pm »
stop wining about things, if you want everything completely balance go back to native. i don't want to see this mod that nerf every single class, you are just not smart enough to fight against cavalry imao

Your credibility might be higher without your glamour photo of you on your pony  :lol:
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Offline Christo

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Re: Cavarly is broken
« Reply #67 on: February 04, 2012, 03:39:36 pm »
stop wining about things, if you want everything completely balance go back to native. i don't want to see this mod that nerf every single class, you are just not smart enough to fight against cavalry imao

I go into a match.

I spawn, dedicated to an anti-cavalry role.

Moving with the team, I'm starting to zoom around for cavalry, noting my team of their movement. (of course they don't give a damn, and get backraped by lancers) Dehorsing about seven cavalry in a row, and yet there are still horsemen on the enemy team.

I know how to lure enemy horsemen into one big chokepoint. I know how to deal with them, given the equipment.
Still, whenever I spawn, I get ear-raped by hooves. My sense of cavalry locating just goes off, and I have to turn around like I've got alzheimers for every sound, because I'm not sure who's who, when I hear hooves in all 360 degrees around me.
Forget supporting infantry in these situations, because you'll get backlanced in the first second you aren't looking for cavalry in the field.
Also, infantry support is painful, given the one direction of attack, ground collision, and bounces.
And, most horses, even light-loomed ones, laugh and just go away while I'm trying to wiggle in another stab, to dehorse them.

However, I'm not for nerfing cavalry, I've already posted why.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 03:42:03 pm by Christo »
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: Cavarly is broken
« Reply #68 on: February 04, 2012, 03:40:12 pm »
Ur what? A decent horse already costs 20k. Adding everything that comes with it already makes affording any cav build a big goal for 1st gens.

No? I made an alt to ride around with Joey and had the same gear he had in a couple hours. By time I had the skill to ride, I had the gold to buy. It is VERY easy to do. All you have to do is.....play.
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Offline Malaclypse

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Re: Cavarly is broken
« Reply #69 on: February 04, 2012, 03:40:35 pm »
Make Pike/Long Spear 2 Slot again, Problem solved...

This doesn't really solve the problem of forcefield shields, or pikes being generally ineffective against Heavy Cav. Rearing a horse is easy, and if it's a lighter horse you may actually kill it; at the very least you'll make it feel some major hurt. But actually doing any significant damage to a Heavy Cav with a pike? Get out of here man. If you happen to not magically stab up through the horses head only to hit the shield, you're basically just tickling a charger, with no hope of hitting his held-down-block rider as he gallops away into the sunset.
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Offline Stjitalurv

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Re: Cavarly is broken
« Reply #70 on: February 04, 2012, 03:52:32 pm »
bamboo spear is 2 slots, thats enough to stop cav... Only use the 3 slots if u wanna be a dedicated spearman... adapt...

Offline Christo

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Re: Cavarly is broken
« Reply #71 on: February 04, 2012, 03:59:05 pm »
bamboo spear is 2 slots, thats enough to stop cav... Only use the 3 slots if u wanna be a dedicated spearman... adapt...

Not true.

I get outranged a lot with the bamboo spear, against heavy lancers.

The special turning in technique just renders it next to useless.

It's only a 10length difference for the bamboo's favor, but any lancer worth his salt will do this manouver, and mess you up in one hit.

1hander cav, is a different story though.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 04:05:06 pm by Christo »
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Offline B3RS3RK

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Re: Cavarly is broken
« Reply #72 on: February 04, 2012, 04:04:42 pm »
At all People who think increasing the price and thus upkeep of something balances things: IT DOESNT BALANCE SHIT!

There are People with that much money, they could ride Plated chargers for generations and still have something left.Even if the cost was doubled.

Increasing prices only makes things unavailable for newer and very poor players(Which mostly dont ride horses anyway).

The key to balancing can never be the price, only the stats.We should have learned that from things like the arbelast.
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Offline dodnet

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Re: Cavarly is broken
« Reply #73 on: February 04, 2012, 04:07:47 pm »
Make Pike/Long Spear 2 Slot again, Problem solved...

Thats no solution. It will just make every polearm or 2h user hold a pike on spawn which was just stupid. Bamboo spear isn't a solution too as stated - its too short. Any skilled cav with heavy lance will outreach you. Even long spear gets outreached sometimes if you time it bad.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 04:09:22 pm by dodnet »
The logic of war seems to be that if a belligerent can fight he will fight.

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Offline Dom.Miguel

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Re: Cavarly is broken
« Reply #74 on: February 04, 2012, 04:14:31 pm »
Nerf bump damage!
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