Author Topic: Unintended Consequences (long)  (Read 3657 times)

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Offline Elmetiacos

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Unintended Consequences (long)
« on: January 28, 2012, 05:44:57 pm »
-4
Apparently everyone was sick of "groofers" standing on buildings after smashing ladders, shooting at infantry with no way of getting them back, prolonging rounds when they'd obviously lost. Now ladders have been removed everyone is sick of cavalry rampaging around unchecked. Cav has been further strengthened by the damage nerf to arrows, which makes horses last longer and by the slower right-left animation, which makes jump-kill harder to execute. You can feel the horse-hate on every battle server.

It seems to me that the more things are improved, the more people are unhappy. I started playing in July 2010, having finally discovered why the Native battle servers were emptying. Back then there was no wpf penalty for armour, there was no retirement. Progress was un-capped but slower. XP was gained by proximity to a kill by your team and so everyone noob rushed in a big mob. I played Zalla_Dakht, named after a recent SP character. She became a horse archer - there were only 2 on the EU servers back then. The first nerf, bringing in an armour wpf penalty (particularly for archers, and I had to sell Zalla's new Sarranid Mail Shirt I'd finally saved up enough gold for - grr!) had a dramatic effect for a few days, then everyone realised it wasn't as bad as they thought and apart from archers, went back to being tin cans.

Realising I was never going to be the HA I wanted before being very high level, I retired Zalla and ended up with Andamaglas, a 2h fighter in the style of the Irish Gallowglass. This is when I was having the most fun. I played only on battle servers back then. I ground my way up. I remember the satisfaction of seeing my Kills overtake my Deaths and of starting to top the scores - not often, but sometimes. I had ground my way up to level 35. I was good and I felt I had earned it! There were obviously things wrong with the game back then; bringing in the Cataphract ("robot horse") and the Plated Charger unbalanced things, and soon the sidearm crossbow users were to reduce the game to a shooting match, but they were fixed. But never again would I actually have a character I enjoyed playing. Patches keep spoiling things.

The only characters I have fun with now are silly characters like Hot Chick With a Sword or Ugg the Caveman. Even then the fun doesn't last, because with each patch, the viability of a build is reduced, the choice narrows. Dying 15 times in a row without killing a single one of those optimised, Kuyak wearing death machines is boring.

Devs, there has been too much tinkering. The game is more frustrating now than it has ever been, choices are narrower than they have ever been. Amiran Dakht used to use a Shashka. It got nerfed and its animation messed with somehow (intentionally or not) I don't know why this was done - I didn't here people sneering at me for being an easymode OP Shashka user... I didn't notice loads of other people using them. The result is that Amiran has become yet another spammitar guy - a choice forced on me. I used to have an archer alt, too. Now, forget it. Unless you play archer all the time or are of the same standard as Radh or Tenne, you may as well be a practice dummy. Never before have phantom blocks and blows been such a problem. People are saying "don't bother blocking, it doesn't work, just spam". One third to a half of all infantry are now pike users anyway, because of the OP-ness of cavalry.

We are in danger of losing our way with this mod. My suggestions, for what they may be worth: strip away some of the extra stuff like faces that seem to mess up hit boxes. Less armour, not more. Get rid of the "soft" level cap - it paradoxically makes everyone a munchkin power gamer. Un-nerf archery a bit. But just step back and take a look at what crpg is now and what it used to be. Is it what you wanted?
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Offline Largg

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Re: Unintended Consequences (long)
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2012, 06:02:27 pm »
0
tldr, read the last chapter though in hope of summary though:
1) What have you been drinking?
2) You really are a min/maxer if you find faces and their hitboxes gamebreaking.

I like the current c-rpg and the way it's developed.

Offline Casimir

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Re: Unintended Consequences (long)
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2012, 06:05:27 pm »
0
right to left swing has been reverted.  wont read any more.
Turtles

Offline The_Bloody_Nine

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Re: Unintended Consequences (long)
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2012, 06:06:52 pm »
0
I only read the first chapter: jump-kills against cav? they work in certain situations, but in general try a timed stab instead.

Offline Meow

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Re: Unintended Consequences (long)
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2012, 06:10:08 pm »
+1
How dare you call this unintended :mrgreen:
(As the rest i obviously did not read the whole thing.)

Offline rustyspoon

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Re: Unintended Consequences (long)
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2012, 06:10:25 pm »
0
Cav is also easily countered. You could try:

a) looking behind you once in a while
b) getting a sharp, pointy stick
c) standing next to someone with a sharp, pointy stick
d) standing on a hill
e) learn to downblock
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Offline Turboflex

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Re: Unintended Consequences (long)
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2012, 06:11:58 pm »
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so you are butthurt cuz one bad thing (ladders) being removed unintentionally buffed some other bad thing? Or how some of your other favourite overpowered and obnoxious weapons got brought into line too?

instead of making a long whine post, write constructive suggestions on how to improve balance.

you sound like some kind of manchild who will never be happy tho, so good luck.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Unintended Consequences (long)
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2012, 06:27:30 pm »
0
I only read the first chapter: jump-kills against cav? they work in certain situations, but in general try a timed stab instead.

When you have enough agi, light armor and a short weapon, jump-swings are the best tactic. I got killed by human fleas with maces like that before.

Offline Polobow

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Re: Unintended Consequences (long)
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2012, 06:29:39 pm »
0
Make a tl;dr for the sake of people actually understanding your opinion.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Unintended Consequences (long)
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2012, 06:30:28 pm »
+7
Something I can agree with is the obsession people have with the kuyak. So tired of seeing both light and heavy version all over the frigging place.

But people are saying "don't bother blocking, it doesn't work, just spam"? Lol? Which people are these? :P
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 06:32:22 pm by Oberyn »
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Unintended Consequences (long)
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2012, 06:31:32 pm »
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Something I can agree with is the obsession people have with the kuyak. So tired of seeing both light and heavy version all over the frigging place.

Agreed.

Offline The_Bloody_Nine

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Re: Unintended Consequences (long)
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2012, 06:35:05 pm »
0
Something I can agree with is the obsession people have with the kuyak. So tired of seeing both light and heavy version all over the frigging place.
agreed. even worse though: it seems everyone getting tired of kuyak is starting to use studded leather over mail. Time to look for a new armour :(

Offline cmp

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Re: Unintended Consequences (long)
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2012, 06:42:44 pm »
+3
like faces that seem to mess up hit boxes

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Offline Elmetiacos

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Re: Unintended Consequences (long)
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2012, 06:54:14 pm »
0
tldr, read the last chapter though in hope of summary though:
1) What have you been drinking?
2) You really are a min/maxer if you find faces and their hitboxes gamebreaking.
1) Zywiec
2) No, the faces seem to cause problems. Whenever new faces come in, there seem be hitbox problems accompanying them. Could be coincidence, or it could be a coding problem. I don't know enough to say. We had a load of hitbox problems when we had those Charles de Gaulle faces a while back.

so you are butthurt cuz one bad thing (ladders) being removed unintentionally buffed some other bad thing? Or how some of your other favourite overpowered and obnoxious weapons got brought into line too?

instead of making a long whine post, write constructive suggestions on how to improve balance.

you sound like some kind of manchild who will never be happy tho, so good luck.
No, I'm not unhappy about ladders being removed. As you already noted, I am never happy anway. All I know is that where people were previously moaning about archers on roofs, they are now moaning about cavalry instead. Is this an improvement? It probably is for you, 2h infantry person: you get to OHK archers if you can catch them before the cavalry.

Something I can agree with is the obsession people have with the kuyak. So tired of seeing both light and heavy version all over the frigging place.

But people are saying "don't bother blocking, it doesn't work, just spam"? Lol? Which people are these? :P
It was being said by a couple of people people on EU1 last night and on EU2 earlier in the week. Can't remember the names.
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Offline Adamar

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Re: Unintended Consequences (long)
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2012, 07:24:14 pm »
+1
Un-nerf archery and ballance returns.