Horse Archery

[Gristle]

Mmm yea right. That's why I made 20k gold in one generation playing as a HA. Also same as a foot archer in one gen.
Some people maybe don't just understand that arrows break more often and so playing as a HA (or foot archer) will be much more costly then playing as a medium armored 2H / 1H+Shield when you can make 200k+. Just pointing this fact.

And yes nerf on archers (and xbows) was little bit over the top.

I don't think that's the kind of cheap he was talking about.

[Overdriven]

Haha no he meants cheap kills I think.

[Overdriven]

Bump.

Had some interesting duels on EU3 tonight 

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

After dueling with OD on EU_1 for a while I truly understand that HA are in a REALLY bad spot, they gotta use tons of arrows to kill someone, got little to no accuracy (infantry will be un-headshotable if they try  a magic thing called dodging).
While throwing also needs to be unnerfed I'm sorry to admit that HAs are worse off than me... guess I better stop spamming "fix throwing"... and start spamming "fix on horse-ranged (luckely I also apply here)".

[Overdriven]

After dueling with OD on EU_1 for a while I truly understand that HA are in a REALLY bad spot, they gotta use tons of arrows to kill someone, got little to no accuracy (infantry will be un-headshotable if they try  a magic thing called dodging).
While throwing also needs to be unnerfed I'm sorry to admit that HAs are worse off than me... guess I better stop spamming "fix throwing"... and start spamming "fix on horse-ranged (luckely I also apply here)".

Kafein would disagree  But you were wearing much better armour and helmet than he was. But you also demonstrated how bad throwing is. I was wearing Kazakh armour and you still barely damaged me 

[Literally_Circler]

Currently HA are still good when working together and can rack up the kills. But on their own they are useless against cavalry (lack of damage to horses), can't get the headshots needed for the extra damage on inf except for luck (lack of accuracy) and a horse charge does more damage than a body shot from a horn bow (may as well just use my courser as my main weapon).

GASP! So you might actually have to use teamwork to be successful instead of being Rambo! I shudder to think of that kind of world.

[Overdriven]

GASP! So you might actually have to use teamwork to be successful instead of being Rambo! I shudder to think of that kind of world.

Missed the point evidently...

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Kafein would disagree  But you were wearing much better armour and helmet than he was. But you also demonstrated how bad throwing is. I was wearing Kazakh armour and you still barely damaged me 

wow... wth?.. ofcourse I KNOW THE REASON FOR THAT, and how to take 90% of your health in a throw, even know how to block a players view of his weapon using a throwing lance but that's another story... yet I'm surprised I did that little, how little? odd since I took 80% off an archer in one throw before him and the two other rangeds facing me massacred me.

Also: (my new official spam message) Fix the fucking horse-ranged-and-ground-throwing-and-maybe-even-xbowing you sons of bitches! expect that to be randomly spammed everywhere.

[Literally_Circler]

Missed the point evidently...

could say the same to you
look at what i quoted
he admits that when working cooperatively with teammates he can still perform well

as a lancer cav i hate dealing with horse archers
yes they probably wont kill me or my horse unless we've taken significant damage already
but they stun me with hits when im about to kill someone, saving lives and giving their teammates a chance to hit me

they are a damn good support role and this sounds like a complaint that they arent out there getting massive kill scores

[Overdriven]

wow... wth?.. ofcourse I KNOW THE REASON FOR THAT, and how to take 90% of your health in a throw, even know how to block a players view of his weapon using a throwing lance but that's another story... yet I'm surprised I did that little, how little? odd since I took 80% off an archer in one throw before him and the two other rangeds facing me massacred me.

Also: (my new official spam message) Fix the fucking horse-ranged-and-ground-throwing-and-maybe-even-xbowing you sons of bitches! expect that to be randomly spammed everywhere.

Some hits only did 40%. Which is bad considering my 17 body armour. Even worse was looking at how many it took you to take out my courser!

could say the same to you
look at what i quoted
he admits that when working cooperatively with teammates he can still perform well

as a lancer cav i hate dealing with horse archers
yes they probably wont kill me or my horse unless we've taken significant damage already
but they stun me with hits when im about to kill someone, saving lives and giving their teammates a chance to hit me

they are a damn good support role and this sounds like a complaint that they arent out there getting massive kill scores

Most other classes don't have to work together to get decent amounts of kills.

I hate that term 'support role'. Who designates that? There's 0 reason for HA to be a support role and have big damage reduction. I never said anything about massive amounts of kills. You're just putting words in my mouth now. But when I can only just break even, or slightly above, an even K/D then it's pretty crappy. The only times I've gotten high amounts of kills was when working with GK HA's and lancers to gank people with cav, simply because they do alot of damage and then a arrow shot can finish them off. No other class has to rely on their team mates quite like that because none has such crappy damage that HA does atm.

I proved with Kafein that I can keep him chasing me all day on a duel server with his 1h cav and kill him, unless I screw up basically. But that kind of play doesn't transfer into battle. The sheer number of cav/inf means that you can't just run willy nilly around the map avoiding and shooting from a distance. It takes a lot more than that and is very risky play on the majority of maps (it's only easy on flat open maps). And that's the big mistake that people make when thinking about HA. They think because they are on a horse and have a bow they can avoid everything. Sure on flat maps I can do that easy. The vast majority of maps on EU1 aren't flat, nor completely open.

[Life]

BUFF HORSE ARCHERY NOWWW!

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

GASP! So you might actually have to use teamwork to be successful instead of being Rambo! I shudder to think of that kind of world.

Hey, eh, guy, ya' know, every class should be able to beat a single player from another class if working together, (still got nightmares of 8 or so GK's circling me while bumping and stabbing) but they should also be allowed to function on their own... oh wait, that's only for infantry, and how much do you wanna bet that once you see ten HAs riding together (luckily this will never happen) bump-shooting you to death you're gonna wish they stayed alone while fighting.

Some hits only did 40%. Which is bad considering my 17 body armour. Even worse was looking at how many it took you to take out my courser!

Yeah the courser thing really shocked me, but I know the reason for it, on other times your courser fell in one or two hits... I know how throwing works, it's all about timing, not aiming.

[Kafein]

fml, its extremely frustrating to put 12 arrows into a 2h with high end mail armor and then a lancer gets him with a single pass -.-
and same goes with lancers,5-8 arrows to take one out while they can take us out easily with a single pass, has are just annoying flies to everybody now.

You kill my horse with exaclty 4 body shots... Not 5-8.

Kafein would disagree  But you were wearing much better armour and helmet than he was. But you also demonstrated how bad throwing is. I was wearing Kazakh armour and you still barely damaged me 

I devised a new secret technique of ancient 1h cav to fight against HA. But I'm not revealing anything, and I don't think you would either xD Interesting duels indeed. I think we ended up being pretty even, but you weren't aiming at my horse, and I got a shield so it doesn't really count. HA against light cav seems ok to me currently, and probably underpowered. I think it's a good idea to buff the HA skill (less agi needed ?) and the Yumi, that one really deserves some love. Faster paced horse archery isn't goign to hurt anyone. But the damage should stay the same.

But what I would really like to see nerfed, though, is the bumpshots. HA are able to "aimlock" shielded infantry, forcing them to keep the shield up, while simultaneously go and bump them. There's virtually no defense against that, no matter what type of infantry you are, even hoplites, that are logically protected against the two threats, can't do anything.

Finally, when you count hits, don't forget that I usually had to hit you twice with my sword to kill you, given I had very little speed bonus when chasing you.

[Overdriven]

You kill my horse with exaclty 4 body shots... Not 5-8.

I devised a new secret technique of ancient 1h cav to fight against HA. But I'm not revealing anything, and I don't think you would either xD Interesting duels indeed. I think we ended up being pretty even, but you weren't aiming at my horse, and I got a shield so it doesn't really count. HA against light cav seems ok to me currently, and probably underpowered. I think it's a good idea to buff the HA skill (less agi needed ?) and the Yumi, that one really deserves some love. Faster paced horse archery isn't goign to hurt anyone. But the damage should stay the same.

But what I would really like to see nerfed, though, is the bumpshots. HA are able to "aimlock" shielded infantry, forcing them to keep the shield up, while simultaneously go and bump them. There's virtually no defense against that, no matter what type of infantry you are, even hoplites, that are logically protected against the two threats, can't do anything.

Finally, when you count hits, don't forget that I usually had to hit you twice with my sword to kill you, given I had very little speed bonus when chasing you.

That technique was actually quite innovative...I was impressed  But yeah we were relatively even seeing as you could 2 shot me with those thrusts. But I also had the speed bonus working for me as I usually slowed to fire and let you charge into me. And yeah I wasn't aiming at your horse. Though it takes about 5 arrows to kill an arabian without a headshot, though that does fluctuate a bit.

Lancer you weren't quite so good. But I know for example, Kerrigan and Maganda can outsmart me every time and 1shot me with their lances/champ arabians if I get into a fight with them.

Bump shooting however is quite hard to pull off. Largely the shielder does have to rely on the HA making a mistake, but more often than not I think they would. If you hold your shield up and then at the last moment slash the horse before the bump, as long as the HA doesn't fire to stun bump you, or he misses, then you'll get the damage on the horse.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Hey, eh, guy, ya' know, every class should be able to beat a single player from another class if working together, (still got nightmares of 8 or so GK's circling me while bumping and stabbing) but they should also be allowed to function on their own... oh wait, that's only for infantry, and how much do you wanna bet that once you see ten HAs riding together (luckily this will never happen) bump-shooting you to death you're gonna wish they stayed alone while fighting.
Yeah the courser thing really shocked me, but I know the reason for it, on other times your courser fell in one or two hits... I know how throwing works, it's all about timing, not aiming... also, since it's pierce dmg I don't think your armor matters AS much.

Damn, qouted me instead of modifying, sry.