Horse Archery

[Mtemtko]

No matter what horse i use Rouncey,Palfrey,courser,Destrier all the horses die from 1-3 shots destrier maybe 2-5 , and  i got 6 IF average body armor i use is 40-50 and i still get 2 shotted  and you still whine!#¤%( 

aight sure lets test that later today

[Overdriven]

In my gen of HA i was able to hold an 3:1 kdr so i dont think there nerfed that bad( this was after the patch)
Now  instead of just keep shooting at  thatt one lonely 2hander just put one shot at him and then switch targets this way by switching you wil get way more hits and at unaware targets getting hs is pretty easy.

That's the thing, I've had similar K/Ds on the maps I played with GK. When I've been the only HA on EU1 and on the losing team I've held an even K/D fairly well. But I find a lot of my kills now come from bumps as you shoot a person and then run them over.

Also that's the way any HA should play. The only reason I focus on one guy and try to kill him is either they are isolated and near the end of a round, or I'm testing how many arrows it takes. The other reason is I focus on cavalry. I've always been an HA who will focus 100% on enemy cavalry first, and until the majority of them are dehorsed I won't focus on inf except for the odd passing shot.

No matter what horse i use Rouncey,Palfrey,courser,Destrier all the horses die from 1-3 shots destrier maybe 2-5 , and  i got 6 IF average body armor i use is 40-50 and i still get 2 shotted  and you still whine!#¤%( 

It's not an HA that's shooting you. Unless they are an str HA in which case killing them is easy. But I've had destriers looking like pin cushions after I've been shooting them. It's gotten to the point where guys on destriers are now sympathetic to me after I finally shoot them down because it takes so long and I have to be so persistant, instead of raging.

And horse head shots rarely work. Example...already damaged arabian and what 'should' be an insta-kill horse head shot:

(click to show/hide)

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(After it was killed by melee for a clearer image of the headshot)
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Unless you hit them right on the end of the nose it doesn't work. You can test this just by shooting a stationary horse in the head. Sometimes the arrow even goes straight through the head and doesn't hit when shooting a stationary horse.

[Fartface]

Well overdriven i dont see the problem then, as an HA i noticed my destrier was an tank and wasn''t going down by archers easily,and i make the lancers or 1h cav chase me i hs there horse which is easy if there chasing you.
And than i put one shot in them when down and il move to another target, but im gonna have to agree it sometimes took way to many shots to kill an 2h in kuyak.

[Overdriven]

Well overdriven i dont see the problem then, as an HA i noticed my destrier was an tank and wasn''t going down by archers easily,and i make the lancers or 1h cav chase me i hs there horse which is easy if there chasing you.
And than i put one shot in them when down and il move to another target, but im gonna have to agree it sometimes took way to many shots to kill an 2h in kuyak.

Destrier isn't meant to be a tank. It's still a light horse regardless. All I can say is if it takes so many arrows to take down a destrier, I don't want to see how many it takes to take down armoured horses as it was already bad. And most lancers don't chase you unless they are incredibly stupid or there's more than one. You have to chase them.

[buba]

I was already struggling before the patch, and thats most likly do to the fact that im simply a average player.
But also becouse the crosshair thats pretty wide, bugged hitboxes, PD5 wich isnt enough for 60% or more of the medium/heavy armor guys on a server and a large portion of the maps that dint support HA playstyle.

Now i was not complaining, i dont think HA should be topping the score boards, and exept for a handfull of HA's who get good scores whatever class they play.
HA's did not.

Now after the patch i can still get some kills, but dehorsing, shooting people of their horses and attacking anything with more then leather is hardly worth it.
I have to focus completly on peasents... and i hate that.

I havent played much since the latest patch, and i dont think i will.
Even, and really mean EVEN if the dev's look into the HA class.... and then say, well that nerf was to harsh.... it will be fixed in december 2010.

So ye, im a bit bleak after spending 9 gens and having 9 hierlooms spend in HA alone.
To far to "adapt" after having to adapt to the previous nerfs to my class, wich where also meant for foot archers with PD8 and high ath or whatnot.
Im still upset becouse of the arrow speed nerf, that took away alot. Arrows flight paths where buggy before but now they relly get all over the place.

Anywho, im ranting.
I have not posted anything about this topic becouse i did not fell it would help.
But i like that Overdriven keeps trying, kudos to you over.

[Fartface]

Destrier isn't meant to be a tank. It's still a light horse regardless. All I can say is if it takes so many arrows to take down a destrier, I don't want to see how many it takes to take down armoured horses as it was already bad. And most lancers don't chase you unless they are incredibly stupid or there's more than one. You have to chase them.

Were fighting differant people i think, on eu1 all lancers and 1h cav chase me lol.

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

Were fighting differant people i think, on eu1 all lancers and 1h cav chase me lol.

Then they arnt very clever... chasing a ha is pointless, unless they havnt seen you you are far more likely to come out with a damaged horse than actually catch them.

[Overdriven]

Were fighting differant people i think, on eu1 all lancers and 1h cav chase me lol.

Haha most start running when I start shooting them, or just keep riding ignoring me and not even trying to dodge. There will ocassionally be an idiotic one who will chase me and I'll lead them off somewhere nice and quiet 

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

George how is that you have played a full gen of HA post patch already? How many days has it been? 6?

Anyway, off topic. The range patch was too broad, I think meow has already mentioned that the devs are working on away to balance it out.

Lets just hope it does get sorted and soonish preferably.

Today I stood on the duels server and let a guy do passes of me with a tartar bow + Bodkins + 6PD. I have +1 White Tunic over mail and mail gauntles. He shot me about 20 times until I got bored and killed his horse. The one thing I did notice that was wierd was that he did less damage to me when I was on my horse.

Overdriven isn't making up tales when he says running people over with the horse does more dmg.

[ZEE_BISHOP]

I don't think most people have any sympathy for the HA cause because you are by far and away the cheapest class in C-RPG. You're not an easy class to play, but you're the least likeable. Having played HA, I felt dirty. You combine the worst aspects of archers and the worst aspects of cavalry. You're seen as the vultures of the battlefield, there's not a class you don't annoy including on your team.

You'll find this is mostly true for a large portion of HA (Not all!):

• You're the guys who rush over to the enemy spawn to get a free kill (along with other kill hungry cavalry).
• You'll go after the peasants  more than anything because of their lack of armour, picking on the weakest of the weak as bad as some of the kill-whoring lancers. Anything for a kill!
• You'll mass horse bump with impunity. Relentlessly if you can followed by an arrow to the back at close range while the poor guy is down.
• You'll ride up super close and shot gun people, noob-xbower style.
• You'll happily pick on people and kite them around all day like they're your personal target and plaything.
• You'll piss off all the other cav with a fast enough horse running around untouchable, never having to actually get into melee range of them.
• You'll invariably be the last guy alive valour leeching and pissing off your team as you ride around neigh on untouchable.
• You're firing into packs of infantry and will hit your team mates a lot more because of your movement. Stunning and pissing off team mates and enemies who are invariably outnumbered while they try to fight.
• You'll bump through packs of infantry when you're able to knocking  over team mate and enemy alike desperate to get a kill as much as the worst cav offenders.

People look at normal cavalry and and go: "well, as annoying as they are... At least they use a melee weapon and have to get into range. They also have to run a gauntlette of throwers, polearms, 2 handers, xbows and archers" (Ha only "has" to deal with archers / xbowers).

People look at normal archers / cavalry and they go "well, annoying as they are... At least it's harder to run away for them, even the highest AGI archer can't run forever even if you're out of ranged. And if they do get into melee and they're high AGI they're down in a few hits."

That's not to say the life of a HA is an easy one, life is hard (It is for some other classes too). But you can get away the easiest. And in some ways, perhaps that "life is hard" aspect is what makes things worse. Because HA have a chip on their shoulder, they feel bitter that they can't get kills super easy and start hating everyone else. Which means they're more likely to do things off that list of dickish moves I posted above far more often and feel justified. 

[Overdriven]

I don't hate everyone else. I'm simply tired of HA nerfs.

1. I don't know many HA's to rush to spawn because the lancers will get the kills long before you do.
2. Well yeah...we kinda have to. My barbs actually register 0 damage against upper medium armour to heavy armour. So I have to go for peasants - lower med armour.
3. Mass horsebump....if that happens it's usually an accident. Horsebumps are used for specific targets and quite risky if it's against an aware person.
4. Well yeah, because of the accuracy. But shotgunning people like that takes a lot of skill and also allows melee to hit you quite easily if they play it right.
5. True as well. But again part of that is because it takes so long to kill them.
6. Ah now can't argue with this one. I live off the hate from lancers. Shooting their horses is sport, although useful for the team. But 3 lancers can easily pin an HA in and then they will not have to worry.
7. True that HA have a higher chance of staying alive and some HA will not stop at the end of a round. But I've gotten used to judging my chances and if I can see there's no chance, I'll either suicide charge or get off my horse and find a melee weapon. Something most HA should do I think.
8. Haha not necessarily true. The chance of hitting each is usually 50/50 if you are moving. But if you are stationary then it's easy to just keep drawing till you get your opportunity.
9. Yeah no. Doing that is suicidal if even one of the inf is paying attention. HA aren't to handy with melee weapons (bar maybe elmer).

[Overdriven]

Well...bump anyway.

[Taser]

I don't think most people have any sympathy for the HA cause because you are by far and away the cheapest class in C-RPG. You're not an easy class to play, but you're the least likeable. Having played HA, I felt dirty. You combine the worst aspects of archers and the worst aspects of cavalry. You're seen as the vultures of the battlefield, there's not a class you don't annoy including on your team.

You'll find this is mostly true for a large portion of HA (Not all!):

• You're the guys who rush over to the enemy spawn to get a free kill (along with other kill hungry cavalry).
• You'll go after the peasants  more than anything because of their lack of armour, picking on the weakest of the weak as bad as some of the kill-whoring lancers. Anything for a kill!
• You'll mass horse bump with impunity. Relentlessly if you can followed by an arrow to the back at close range while the poor guy is down.
• You'll ride up super close and shot gun people, noob-xbower style.
• You'll happily pick on people and kite them around all day like they're your personal target and plaything.
• You'll piss off all the other cav with a fast enough horse running around untouchable, never having to actually get into melee range of them.
• You'll invariably be the last guy alive valour leeching and pissing off your team as you ride around neigh on untouchable.
• You're firing into packs of infantry and will hit your team mates a lot more because of your movement. Stunning and pissing off team mates and enemies who are invariably outnumbered while they try to fight.
• You'll bump through packs of infantry when you're able to knocking  over team mate and enemy alike desperate to get a kill as much as the worst cav offenders.

People look at normal cavalry and and go: "well, as annoying as they are... At least they use a melee weapon and have to get into range. They also have to run a gauntlette of throwers, polearms, 2 handers, xbows and archers" (Ha only "has" to deal with archers / xbowers).

People look at normal archers / cavalry and they go "well, annoying as they are... At least it's harder to run away for them, even the highest AGI archer can't run forever even if you're out of ranged. And if they do get into melee and they're high AGI they're down in a few hits."

That's not to say the life of a HA is an easy one, life is hard (It is for some other classes too). But you can get away the easiest. And in some ways, perhaps that "life is hard" aspect is what makes things worse. Because HA have a chip on their shoulder, they feel bitter that they can't get kills super easy and start hating everyone else. Which means they're more likely to do things off that list of dickish moves I posted above far more often and feel justified. 

I was going to post a lol wut image here but I got sidetracked and laughed my ass off for 10 minutes or so with various images. Anyway your entire quote has nothing to do with why HA should or shouldn't be nerfed. Regardless of their status with NA/EU/melee/archers/Sauron/my third grade teacher/your mom/etc, it doesn't matter.

They are a hated class and for good reason. You've listed a number of them. I hate HA's a bit myself but less so than most since I am an archer. I've only been an archer for about 4 gens now and was melee for 6 gens before that. I am well aware of HA hate and had more of it when I was melee.

They still got shafted with the nerf. Hopefully they'll be buffed some so I don't feel invulnerable fighting a HA via a ranged fight. They're like mosquitos at the moment. Annoying? Hell yes. Dangerous? No.

[Haragh]

I don't think most people have any sympathy for the HA cause because you are by far and away the cheapest class in C-RPG.

Mmm yea right. That's why I made 20k gold in one generation playing as a HA. Also same as a foot archer in one gen.
Some people maybe don't just understand that arrows break more often and so playing as a HA (or foot archer) will be much more costly then playing as a medium armored 2H / 1H+Shield when you can make 200k+. Just pointing this fact.

And yes nerf on archers (and xbows) was little bit over the top.

[mOus333]

• You'll ride up super close and shot gun people, noob-xbower style.