Shielders vs ranged

[Spawny]

The problem:
Shielders are supposed to be "the counter" vs archers/xbowmen. Currently they aren't. A few rounds last night made me terribly aware of this once again. Up to a point where there were 2 ranged left alive in one team and 3 shielders in the other. All of them were shot around/over their shield without getting close to the ranged guys.

In my oppinion, the only advantage of having a shield is you can block one couched attack with it.
Having an auto-block (as people like to call it) is not very usefull when blocking isn't really needed when you swing a great sword or a glaive. Hell, you can actually kill people when swinging a 2h weapon or polearm without blocking, but I've never seen anyone getting killed by a blocking shielder.
It currently looks to me, everything you can do with a shield, you can do better with a 2h/polearm.
I don't really care about all the rest, that's fine imo, but at least give shielders a use vs ranged.

I have no suggestion myself, as I can't really think of a way how to do this without increasing the forcefield on shields again.

tl;dr
Shields are pretty much useless when focussed by archers/xbowmen. Needs a buff of some sort to become "the ranged counter" once again.

[Cris]

When I play shielder I have no problem with ranged players...

If I wont wanna get shot I use a big shield...If they are playing as a team and they kill me, good for them.

What you say about 3 shielders vs 2 ranged...I find it a bit odd that you lost if none of the ranged where mounted (which gives them speed advantage), maybe the shielders should have played as a team, getting the angle right to avoid the arrows.


Edit: Any kind of buff would mean going back to the magnet we had before. Remember it even got to a point that shields would even protect horses if the rider had good shield skill.

[Elmokki]

Two gens ago I was 24/15 shielder. I couldn't do anything to archers.

Now I have 21 agility and my build at 30, 18/21 isn't THAT low strength build. I can pretty much troll around with a buckler and run down or at least run at about the same speed as an archer. Against more skilled archers I'd pick a bigger shield.

Sure though, 2+ archers and it gets very hazardous, way more so than against 2+ melee, and actually catching someone who runs is often impossible before they find a teammate who ties me down in melee. Still it hardly is a problem.

[Fluffy_Muffin]

I dont have problems with archers when im idling away with rmb pressed, or when in a shieldwall or something. But when you fight, shield or no shield it doesent matter to ranged. I use a huscarl so i dont have the over and under problems, but when i used the lighter shields that are smaller i had these problems. I think its a fair trade in terms of the huscarl: you sacrafice a bit of mobility for better protection from ranged. Ofcourse i get the ocasional headshot, legshot but nothing major

[Tears of Destiny]

Play one gen as an archer, and you will quickly realize what shields plus what shield skill pose difficulty, and what do not.

It is surprisingly easy to make a build that can properly shield against archers, I have even done one with just 3 shield skill by choosing the right shield (I do suggest minimum 5 though for large shields, and 6 or 7 for the smaller ones).

[XyNox]

If anyone seriously thinks that shielders are underpowered against archers, he or she should most certainly seek a doctor, as there is a very high chance that the brain of this person is heavily damaged.

[Overdriven]

No problem with archers. Either with plain round shield or huscarl shield.

[Renten]

The only problem is that their shields weight (actually I think just having a shield slows you down too) makes them run equal or lesser speeds than the archers.  If the archer has any sort of melee back up the shielder is tied down, and if its another archer they just run in two different directions.

In other words, strength build shielders or heavy armor shielders don't run fast enough to pose a major threat.

[Elmokki]

The only problem is that their shields weight (actually I think just having a shield slows you down too) makes them run equal or lesser speeds than the archers.  If the archer has any sort of melee back up the shielder is tied down, and if its another archer they just run in two different directions.

In other words, strength build shielders or heavy armor shielders don't run fast enough to pose a major threat.

Having a shield doesn't slow you down because it's a shield unless you have more than one. Also shield + 1h weight exceeds bow + 2x bodkins only if you're using a heavy non-sword and/or a heavy shield (7 to 7.7 weight for some bow + 2x bodkins, plenty of shield + sword combos and some shield + hammer combos are lower than that)

Strength build can't chase an agi build, what's the problem?
Heavy armor can't chase down light armor, what's the problem?

I have no problem with archers at 7 ath, 6 ath was enough to catch many too.

[Tot.]

Having a shield doesn't slow you down because it's a shield unless you have more than one. Also shield + 1h weight exceeds bow + 2x bodkins only if you're using a heavy non-sword and/or a heavy shield (7 to 7.7 weight for some bow + 2x bodkins, plenty of shield + sword combos and some shield + hammer combos are lower than that)

Armor.

[Kafein]

If anyone seriously thinks that shielders are underpowered against archers, he or she should most certainly seek a doctor, as there is a very high chance that the brain of this person is heavily damaged.

One shielder wins against one archer. Two shielders rarely win against two archers. No matter how you turn the problem, the shielders are always going to take arrows in the back.

[Tot.]

Reducing movement speed after using ranged weapon for a bit kinda solves the problem.

[Vodner]

Why not just restore ranged damage to where it was, and remove the ability to sprint while a bow is in your inventory?

This way archers are still really dangerous, but an archer will either have to take a sidearm (and make a build that can use it), or rely on his team for protection. Losing sprint won't affect the archer's ability to use his sidearm to defend himself in melee (people rarely run without blocking/strafing/attacking long enough in melee to sprint).

[Tears of Destiny]

Why not just restore ranged damage to where it was, and remove the ability to sprint while a bow is in your inventory?

And half the archers get lanced struggling out of spawn because the entire melee team races ahead.

[Vodner]

And half the archers get lanced struggling out of spawn because the entire melee team races ahead.

You could have the debuff applied only after firing the first arrow. Even without that, player speeds are so disparate that faster players already need to slow down to keep from outrunning their teammates.