Thoughts on how to fix throwing, if it even needs to be fix

[Zanthos]

Raise PT requirements on lower tiers and increase reticle/accuracy box when moving (similar to archery). I'd be happy with that.

[Stud_Muffin]

Raise PT requirements on lower tiers and increase reticle/accuracy box when moving (similar to archery). I'd be happy with that.

+1 Also increasing the cost to buy them and the upkeep would help to keep people from abusing them.

[Native_ATS]

Risk vs reward.  Range is low to zero risk for high to extreme rewards.  That's where the balance comes into play
Throwing is low ammo, low range needs a higher reward and most throwers get up in peoples faces, so if they miss it is over. I'm not worryed about all this FOTM throwers, i know there aim is bad and its just spam for them, i use a teir 1 sheild to get in close and then i just beat them to death with my lance, no reason to throw my lances at someone who cant fight with theres lol.

x-bow doing 80% hp in 1 shot is sad, no skill points needed, no wpf just need to own one and ur good to go

you can pick up your ammo, but why would you let a thrower pick up his gear, also if its in a ladder or door, the item is gone

as of pikes being a counter to ponys, i say no, all smart ponys stay way form pikes because they see them a mile away, but when your able to throw your pike(throwing lance) the ponys just seem to die. I round up pony kills like crazy in most games, but i dont see pike men being able to keep up.

i dont want high tier nerffed 

mauls are mauls, just wanted it to be know they can 1 shot people just as easy as lances and you cant block them. yet there used to stop sheild maddnes

throwing lances dont 1 shot untill you have 9-10 pt, and even then some people just dont die.

Throwing spears, throwing Jav are not lances, am talking about the 7pt throwing lances( they should be like 8-9pt) only time to time do i see people throw them like i do, i think i only seen you throw spears.

No its not the same for all range, throwing high tier items are slow, arrows are so much faster, a tad harder to move out of an arrows way or xbolt then a throwing lance.

A teir 2 round sheild can takes 2 lances befor its done, but sheilds do brake. I do love throwing. I hate that it seems  people are crying about it as it is all broken. Throwing a knife would kill anyone, but this is a game as in this game throwing knifes dont kill with 1, but i would think if you get blasted by a lance you shouldnt be able to fight. If they do nerf damg, i only hope they let the people who loomed so many throwing items get them back, if i wanted to hurt a man i would throw javs and not waste so much str geting to lances lol

gorath you been throwing along time too, maybe you can list your ideas on how to fix it if it had to be fixed?

[Patricia]

Significantly reduce speed rating and damage.

[Sphinxer]

You can't touch throwing speed.. it already got nerfed so much already.

You can lower damage , and you can't lower stacks.

The only real fixes possibles are the following 2 :

1st : Make WPF required to throw better..

2nd : Lower damages of some throwing weapons.

[Native_ATS]

You can't touch throwing speed.. it already got nerfed so much already.

You can lower damage , and you can't lower stacks.

The only real fixes possibles are the following 2 :

1st : Make WPF required to throw better..

2nd : Lower damages of some throwing weapons.

i see you been throwing befor patch
i vote yes on wpf

[1slander]

Foot shotted with a war dart..
Nuff said.

That was me!  You were crossing a ladder bridge.

[1slander]

-goretooth

THIS. This is why I dislike throwing, because I simply cannot defend myself. "Hurrr you should have a sheild" is not responce to that, by the way; everyone shouldn't have to conform to someone elses play style just to stay alive. Throwing is silly right now, and needs to be fixed.

I made a post about how to fix throwing in the suggestions forum. Basically, throwing should act AS A SUPPLEMENT TO THE AVERAGE INFANTRY GUY'S ARSENAL. If you want to specialize in throwing weapons, then you're different than the average infantry guy obviously. The problem is that throwing weapons are currently spam weapons, you can't fucking aim. Throwing with accuracy at any distance is very very difficult, but it's currently worth it right now because thrown weapons do ridiculous amounts of damage, and you can throw them faster than most archers can shoot. You can also throw on the move.

All of those things contribute to a spam attitude among throwers. It's ridiculous.

FIX THE PROBLEM by making thrown weapons non-spamtastic. Make them much more accurate, but make the rate of fire slower. Make it so that thrown weapons are really inaccurate while moving. Decrease the amount of axes/javelines/loldarts/lances a thrower has. Because throwers will actually be able to hit what they're aiming at, you can decrease the damage throwing weapons do. Instead of relying on chance and massive damage, they can rely on skill and timing. They'll have less items to throw, so they should actually focus on conserving ammunition and waiting for the right moment to throw.

Read my post in the suggestion forum.

I can hit people across the map with a Jarid - 115 wpf throwing / 6PT

Sure it isn't incredibly accurate but it's all in the timing, or the over aiming due to driveby speed or height differences.  Takes practice.  If I had a low ping I would be deadly.

[Gorath]

gorath you been throwing along time too, maybe you can list your ideas on how to fix it if it had to be fixed?

1)  Make a wpf curve much like x-bows.  People think that you can use x-bows without wpf, which is true, however the difference between your 1 wpf and my 130 wpf is pretty huge and the chances I'll headshot you from across the map are far far greater because of it.
and
2)  Rebalance the damage to prevent 1 shot kills.  Personally I think and have always thought throwing lances are retarded and would love to see them removed for the sake of reducing the lolwut factor of the game (like the damned boulder on a stick and looney tunes axe).  High damage per shot is fine, but 1-hits shouldn't happen unless done to the dome.
or
3)  Rebalance ammo counts to be somewhat feasible.  The darts I don't have much issue with due to their size, shape and quivers.  Throwing dagger counts make sense, but 16 throwing axes?  Are you pooping them out through some strangely mutated colon?  16 throwing spears?  I guess it would explain why we run like we have sticks up our butts.  If we're not going to reduce damages, then reduce ammo counts to remain somewhat in the realm of sanity (not realism).
or
4)  Combination of 2 and 3:  The weapons with high ammo counts get nerfs so that they only hurt from headshots (I know all too well how lethal war darts are with 6+ PT to the body both as thrower and throwee).  The weapons which deal rediculous damage can maintain that damage but have their ammo counts further reduced to force more aim and less spam into masses gameplay.
and/or
5)  Increase the weight of thrown weapons across the board.  One of the most powerful tools in throwings arsenal is that it's the only ranged weapon which is extremely effective and accurate when done on the run.  Therefore in order to minimize this extremely powerful benefit (I abused the hell out of it before) increase the weight of throwing weapons to significantly reduce movement speed.
or
6)  Put a cap on the effect of Power Throw like Power Draw had in native.  You gain the benefit of the bonus from PT up to 3 above the requirement of the weapon and then anything more is wasted points.  This would prevent the 7-8 PT war dart machine guns, snow flake storms, walls of throwing daggers, rapid fire rock snipers, etc.

Personally the options I would go with would be 1 and 6.

[Balton]

The problem with your argument is that a bec or longaxe (or any 2her sword, they can all one-shot the average build) can be blocked.  That throwing lance cannot be blocked except by a shield.

I was always a ranged/melee hybrid of some sort.  Gorath was a notorious throwing spear user pre-patch (7 PT) for my hoplite look.  However the issue people have is with any ranged weapon 1-shotting someone as it's only blockable by a shield.  Headshots are ok for 1-shot kills, but no ranged weapon (for the sake of gameplay) should ever 1-shot anyone with a body shot.  Bows can't do it, x-bows can't do it anymore, throwing is the only ranged attack left capable of 1-shotting people with body hits and THAT is what needs nerfing.

I am currently rocking a 24str build (more than average health), and I get 1-shot by xbows, and 2-shot by archers on a pretty consistent basis.

All ranged should be nerfed, with all of the heirlooming going on, the same problem has arisen that was here pre-patch, ranged has become a way for noobs to easy-kill skilled players that don't dump multiple points into shield on every single build. And let's face it, a noob shouldn't be able to consistently take out a player that they wouldn't even be able to hurt, were their builds identical.

[Tears of Destiny]

I am currently rocking a 24str build (more than average health), and I get 1-shot by xbows, and 2-shot by archers on a pretty consistent basis.

All ranged should be nerfed, with all of the heirlooming going on, the same problem has arisen that was here pre-patch, ranged has become a way for noobs to easy-kill skilled players that don't dump multiple points into shield on every single build. And let's face it, a noob shouldn't be able to consistently take out a player that they wouldn't even be able to hurt, were their builds identical.

What on earth are you wearing for armor? And noobs can not shoot to save lives, given they can not lead a target for crap. Games involves significantly more top-scoring throwers/meleeists then they do archers.

As for 1-shot by xbows, that is due to them shooting you in the head (the last few matches without fail I saw you getting one-shot only due to head shots). Last I checked you do not ride around on peasent gear. Nerf throwers? Yes. Nerf archers who soften more then kill? Why?

I have yet to see any "noob" who can consistently take targets out with a bow, due to, again, not ebing able to track multiple targets and thus get ganked by a melee user due to tunnel vision, as well as being worthless worthless shots.

Usually when a guy goes down at range due to "noobs" it is from a half dozen archers shooting at you, and face it even in melee a half dozen players ganging up on someone usually results in a death.

I am reminded of how many Melee/Cav characters that can one shot people too... Are they unskilled then?

[Balton]

What on earth are you wearing for armor? And noobs can not shoot to save lives, given they can not lead a target for crap. Games involves significantly more top-scoring throwers/meleeists then they do archers.

As for 1-shot by xbows, that is due to them shooting you in the head (the last few matches without fail I saw you getting one-shot only due to head shots). Last I checked you do not ride around on peasent gear. Nerf throwers? Yes. Nerf archers who soften more then kill? Why?

I have yet to see any "noob" who can consistently take targets out with a bow, due to, again, not ebing able to track multiple targets and thus get ganked by a melee user due to tunnel vision, as well as being worthless worthless shots.

Usually when a guy goes down at range due to "noobs" it is from a half dozen archers shooting at you, and face it even in melee a half dozen players ganging up on someone usually results in a death.

I am reminded of how many Melee/Cav characters that can one shot people too... Are they unskilled then?

Versus cav/melee you have a chance to kill them, versus range, you don't. And what are you talking about, I haven't even played today... As for my gear, I wear whatever I consider to be stylish.

[Gorath]

And what are you talking about, I haven't even played today

Dude you were on the NA servers earlier today for over an hour, so... what are YOU talking about?   

[Tears of Destiny]

Versus cav/melee you have a chance to kill them, versus range, you don't. And what are you talking about, I haven't even played today... As for my gear, I wear whatever I consider to be stylish.

I said last few, last "Few" not "Today". Last few as in the last few matches I was in that had you in them as well.

What are you talking about?!

[Cyclopsided]

Oh boy, another throwing topic. Ok, I'm a thrower and here is my take on a proper nerf to throwing so these spam kids can't do this shit anymore.

Well, to fix throwing without it being stupid you need to: 1. Make it not spammable. 2. Make it more skill based/investment required.
This is pretty simple to do. You slow down the animation for throwing much like for archers (or just lower the weapon speed, that is easier) which makes it less spammable, ALSO, you can increase the weight of throwing stacks so if you run in with 4 stacks of throwing axes for example, YOU ARE SLOWER FROM ALL THE WEIGHT . Suddenly spam is way less viable.

As for making throwing more skill based / also actual investment into stats you have to make WPF do more and PT do less (which they can't do until WSE is implemented I don't think? Correct me if I'm wrong on that one.). Currently PT does way more than WPF so most people are 1 wpf throwing just fine.
So throwing damage lowered, accuracy increased and make it require a WPF investment to be useful.

Ah well, I just hope it is nerfed in a logical manner. Maybe something we haven't thought of.
**I think throwing lances are retarded, you shouldn't have a onehit kill weapon based on LUCK not SKILL. I feel bad being a thrower because that shit exists.