Crushtrough - My take on a fix

[UrLukur]

That still doesn't strengthen your argument UrLurker: I'm talking about balancing 1v1. I can see no advantage for 2h (I'm talking grand scheme of things; not 'he has 20 more range!') in a duel. Which class are they supposed to be better than? Or do you believe they should be slaughtered by archers and cav (while shielders are only slaughtered by cav) and then have an equal or lesser chance against shielders?

At least with a fastish crush through weapon (if they made it better vs shields, though worse vs weapon blocks) they'd have an advantage over one class. The only 'advantage' I have with my 2h over my 1h is I kill crap players faster (though my 2h risks getting an unlucky hit from them if I screw up a block, whereas my shielder is at risk of getting hit only if my heart fails IRL mid-duel). Speed in killing large numbers of crap players is not an advantage.


Sorry Magikarp; didn't mean to derail the thread. In a roundabout way I was trying to show that the main advantage a 2h has against a shielder with a huscarl (especially loomed) is a decent crush through weapon (either that, or they need lots of time, amazing manual blocking skills and a big axe).

Edit:
IT"S CLEARLY OP THEN!!!1111

On a more serious note; were you duelling skilled shielders when you got those? Or did you gank a few peasants and decide you had the skillz?
On a more

Even with Mauls they can crush with teamwork, so they have advantage. With axes they have it too. The game is not only 1vs1. 1vs1 they have advantage over other melee.

2h, with or without crush do just fine in game. Barmaces have no real counters in melee, assuming same skill.

[Magikarp]

Heirloomed Barmaces are indeed too powerful, heck, I think having such a blunt wep with ct to be too OP.

Great Maul and Polehammer are hardly a good counter to uber blockers and shielders, if the faster ct is removed entirely and throwing is finally at a normal level, than the German Greatsword build will be dominant. Huscarl will probably be nerfed, so shielders will be less powerful.

[UrLukur]

Heirloomed Barmaces are indeed too powerful, heck, I think having such a blunt wep with ct to be too OP.

Great Maul and Polehammer are hardly a good counter to uber blockers and shielders, if the faster ct is removed entirely and throwing is finally at a normal level, than the German Greatsword build will be dominant. Huscarl will probably be nerfed, so shielders will be less powerful.

I suspect next patch we will get cmp tools. Which means huge changes. Probably shields will change entirely (no forcefield, shield skill responsible for speed and resistance, protect in iddle) so will be much less powerful.

Great Maul is amazing turtle counter, ask phyrex.

Greatswords will be top choices, i put my money on it.

[Chasab]

everyone needs to stop arguing over whats better/worse and start discussing what the problem is.

Crush through is too powerful.

there is no quick fix, and we cant just put a bandaid on it and fix the Fotm crush through weapon. Its something that needs a deeper fix.

You should only be able to crush through someone "weaker" then you. someone with less str, PS, health, or a combination of all three.

Since there is no stamina in the game you cant really be "tired" so the only real option are the ones i listed above. just removing it from barmace isnt going to remove the problem its just going to have the same problem on a different weapon.

[UrLukur]

General concept of dealing damage after successful block is fine. In strict classes, crushing would be very easy to deal with. In cRPG it's more tricky.

IMO, crushing with weapons should be done only with chambered attack (full damage) and decent speed bonus. Or with either for minimal success (around 5hp dealt). Crushing with those should be restricted to pure classes.

[EponiCo]

Nah, hammer is ok. Just make sure there is no build possible that crushes without being spamable.

[Magikarp]

The biggest problem right now with crushtrough is the 'heavy' trait that these weapons get when heirloomed, if that gets changed, than they would be balanced.

On my 11 powerstrike character, with a non heirloomed barmace, I don't crushtrough that often, when I pick up a heavy one however, I suddenly crushtrough almost all the time.

[Paroxysm]

whether a crushthrough attack is successful is mostly dependent on the weight of the weapon. a non-heirloomed bar mace crushes rarely, a mallet/maul/great maul crushes a lot, as it should be. really all that needs to be done is balancing the weight of the heirloomed bar mace and long iron mace. reduce the weight they gain so a gen 1 bar mace crushes an avg of 20% of the time, gen2-25% and gen3-30%, boom crush-through fixed.

don't remove crush through from these weapons just tweak the damn weight of them

[Magikarp]

whether a crushthrough attack is successful is mostly dependent on the weight of the weapon. a non-heirloomed bar mace crushes rarely, a mallet/maul/great maul crushes a lot, as it should be. really all that needs to be done is balancing the weight of the heirloomed bar mace and long iron mace. reduce the weight they gain so a gen 1 bar mace crushes an avg of 20% of the time, gen2-25% and gen3-30%, boom crush-through fixed.

don't remove crush through from these weapons just tweak the damn weight of them

I agree, not with the percentages, but mostly what you mean is what I mean.

Remember people that my take on the fix is a rash fix in my opinion, a worst case scenario. What the devs said is a radical and easy fix. Even lazy if you ask me.

Heirloomed maces should get top priority, balance them so they don't get 100% crush troughs.

[Chasab]

any eta on when 100% crush through gets removed?

[Casimir]

100% crushthrough can never be removed.

Pure str + great maul = 100% crush

THINK ABOUT IT!

[Spawny]

100% crushthrough can never be removed.

Pure str + great maul = 100% crush

THINK ABOUT IT!

But he will have a weakness: speed.

Right now, most crushthrough builds can just block once and then start spamming overheads. You're so preoccupied dodging the overheads rather than blocking them that it's hard to counter.
It's silly you can have a great maul AND 20+ agility.

[Chasab]

its silly that anyone with less strength then me can crush through me

[Casimir]

They can only do that if their weapons weight is more. Its laws of physics.