Hunting/Light Crossbow Moving While Reloading?

[Magikarp]

I have a better solution : remove the "reloadable on horse" flag for ALL crossbows.

That's more logical and balanced. And of course if it's that way, you obviously can't reload while moving on foot.

We got Horse Archers, why not the Medieval European counter Mounted Crossbowman? It's not logical.

Mounted Crossbowman are in no way as powerful to even call them close to being OP. Annoying? Yes. But that's the same with every single ranged class.

I'd rather have some smaller xbows like they really used in Medieval times, but I can't model/texture :/

[Kafein]

We got Horse Archers, why not the Medieval European counter Mounted Crossbowman? It's not logical.

Mounted Crossbowman are in no way as powerful to even call them close to being OP. Annoying? Yes. But that's the same with every single ranged class.

I'd rather have some smaller xbows like they really used in Medieval times, but I can't model/texture :/

Ever seen a mounted crossbowman aiming at an HA ? Not me, that's for sure. I played some rounds with a typical mounted xbow set, and got 2/1 ratio even though I had no wpf in either polearm or xbow, 0 in HA skill and absolutly no player experience of it. Mounted xbowmen have the incredible advantage of stable aiming over HAs. They are even a worse opponent than most HA when you are a cav (well anyway you can't really do anything against mounted ranged apart from waiting a big mistake from them while your horse is loosing all his HP in roughly 3 shots). You can't predict when they will shoot, thus as a footman shield+polearm you can't do anything either (true for HA too, but sometimes they miss their timing, mounted crossbowmen dont). The time it takes to reload is really short and anyway they can flee out of sight/range in a flash.

Actually, HA are the ideal counter to mounted xbows, not the opposite.

Logical? That's a logic fail right there. There's nothing that would stop person from reloading on horseback and for the sake of gameplay it should remain so in game too.

For the sake of gameplay it should be excluded even if historically accurate IMO.

[bruce]

Well, hopefully first person ranged enforcement will be valid for horse ranged too so while aiming they will have much worse situation awareness.

[Krakatit]

Logical? That's a logic fail right there. There's nothing that would stop person from reloading on horseback and for the sake of gameplay it should remain so in game too.

Did you ever rode a galloping horse? You would be happy if you could hold on to it and you can dream of pulling a string on a xbow
Even when you ride a trotting horse it is not easy to not hold yourself with your hands. Of course you must hold it with your legs but it
needs lots of experience with horse riding to be able ride a galloping horse without holding it with hands.

[Wulzzz]

It's funny how your statement doesn't make much sense
A crossbowman cannot be an archer because he is a crossbowman, it is simple as that, I fail to see your logic.

And what makes a crossbowman a crossbowman?
He must stand still to reload his crossbow, while archers can move while shooting.
So whats the difference when both can move while shooting..talking about the lightxbow it almost does the same damage over time as an archer with pd 4.
So lightxbow needs 7 str.. if he pumps everything else into agi/wm he is just kinda an OP archer because he can reach fast reload speed and could move while reloading and in the end the damage per time is equal to PD 6 + - archer but having higher accuracy.

Here would be an example of lightxbow archer style build:

7 str
36 agi

IF 2
PS 2
Athletics 2
WM 12

Mounted Crossbowman are in no way as powerful to even call them close to being OP. Annoying? Yes. But that's the same with every single ranged class.

Well.. they also aren't underpowered too.
Needing only 7 str, no crossbowskill, they can reach insane accuracy with not so slow reload speed.They at least definately need no buff.
And their build allows them to get HA 6 easily.. which is kinda sick lol..

[Nemeth]

Oh my, these arguments like "Have you ever tried it? blah blah", honestly, just go to the circuss, watch what they can do on horsebacks, then think about it a bit, the logical conclusion you should come to is that with enough training there would be no problem whatsoever to draw an xbow on horseback.
If you think horse xbower is more dangerous than HA, you haven't met good HA. With xbow, you really wanna hit every shot, and unless you're really good, you won't. The fact you have to reload, wich takes couple of seconds, and the fact that even a jump will interrupt this action, makes horse xbowman inferior to HA, who can just shoot all the time.
Also, while on foot the advantage of holding your aim indefinitly with xbow is a definite plus, on horse it doesnt really matter, you still usually shoot right after the reticule settles.
All in all, saying horse xbowman is better than HA is crap. HA will be always better, thanks to the rate of fire, that can't be interrupted.

Guess that's a bit off topic though ^^. I don't really care for light xbow, with enough wpf, the reload speed is damn fast, so it would make no sense to make it possible while moving. It would only encourage people to use it with no wpf, which would lead to crying on forums and nerfs. So no, don't do it ^^

[Krakatit]

I was just pointing out that reloading and firing from a xbow on a horse is not so easy as joxer have described. It had nothing to do with the game itself. And those "Have you ever tried it? blah blah" argument are needed many times because ppl use to have limited knowledge of how real life works.

[Memento_Mori]

Very nice posts guys, we are talking about a game though so if we could keep the real life discussions at a minimum that'd be better I think for judging, since believe it or not the game has less variables to consider than real life.
So far I've come to the conclusion that balance wise it could lead to archery being even more neglected which is bad imo so I'm saying NO. of course I do like discussing further because I think it would still be a cool idea.

For what makes an archer an archer and a crossbowman a crossbowman I think its more obvious than even what you have stated.

Archer uses a bow
Crossbowman a crossbow

even though an archer is like a foot infantry , and may wield a large 2h sword he is still an archer because he uses a bow.
 IMO, this is how my logic works, I don't know what you'd call a guy with a bow, arrows, crossbow & bolts.

I think for the sheer fact that there are already mounted crossbowman in CRPG that reloading on horseback should not be removed from the lighter crossbows because of how unfair it would be to those character classes that put time into it.

Remember guys this is just a discussion not a debate there's no winners or losers just opinions & theories.

Still think hunting crossbows & light crossbows being reloaded while moving but having you moving at a walking pace would be a neat addition but I cannot think of anything exactly beneficial to the game as a whole from this but please continue if anyone has any more they would like to add.

[bruce]

With a light crossbow and lots of wpf you can basically stop for half a second and resume moving after the bend over to take it in the ass animation finishes but before the bolt is put in place and you put the bolt in while running. Seriously. It's not a problem.

[Dravic]

7 str
36 agi

IF 2
PS 2
Athletics 2
WM 12

You gave me idea what my next gen char will be like:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 7
Agility: 33
Hit points: 42
Converted: 10
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 0
Shield: 0
Athletics: 10
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 11
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 198
Throwing: 1

Insane build, i will use 1gen light xbow.

[Wulzzz]

For what makes an archer an archer and a crossbowman a crossbowman I think its more obvious than even what you have stated.

Archer uses a bow
Crossbowman a crossbow

Exactly.And what is a bow and what a crossbow? It's not really about the looks but the usage/function of it.
So a lightxbow that you can reload while moving and doesn't need much time to reload with high wpf would more appear as a bow kinda...than a typical crossbow..

And.. i don't see a reason to disable xbow reload on horse back.But i also don't see a reason to buff them in any way.

[Trael]

Ever seen a mounted crossbowman aiming at an HA ? Not me, that's for sure.

Actually, HA are the ideal counter to mounted xbows, not the opposite.

Exactly, bow horse archers are total "FUUUUUUU RUN AND HOPE SOMEONE ELSE KILLS IT" for horse crossbower.
I'm currently playing horse crossbow, wpf 150 in crossbows and 4 in HA... and i have to say that yes we mostly do good against lancer cavalry, and some polespammers and 2h spammers... but really with ammount of bolts that just dissabear when they hit horse or rider, its quite annoying to us too.

And no its not easymode, (well when some polearms/2h user runs to open and does not even try to dodge while completely separated from rest of his/her team it is easy mode... but with any weapon riding or not it would be)

personally i still consider fast computer and melee as easymode.

edit: and yes... problem with crossbows currently isnt in light or hunting crossbow, its in most expensive ones.
personally i think horse crossbow is currently most working and balanced crossbow build.

[Wulzzz]

Exactly, bow horse archers are total "FUUUUUUU RUN AND HOPE SOMEONE ELSE KILLS IT" for horse crossbower.

Not correct.For you atm maybe.
But imagine HorseCrossbower with HA 6 and high wpf which can be done easily at lvl 30 -31.

[Trael]

Not correct.For you atm maybe.
But imagine HorseCrossbower with HA 6 and high wpf which can be done easily at lvl 30 -31.

yeah sure completely dedicated max max wpf horse crossbower can reload quite fast... but im supprised if he/she can reload faster that horse archer. so still not safe against horse archers becouse of their yber firespeed and every jump or damage stopping crossbow reload.

sure horse archers can be killed, but by default on 1vs1 they do tend to have advantage if both parties know what they are doing.

but btw... to original thing... found myself earlier today thinking same while playing. could be mode change or so... reload faster by bending ... or reload slower by being able to move while reloading. Pretty much as it is on top of horse, maybe slight movement speed penalty and little more reload speed penalty as optimal (since while running or moving you cant use all that much strength with arms...) or so...

but yeah...

[Magikarp]

Not correct.For you atm maybe.
But imagine HorseCrossbower with HA 6 and high wpf which can be done easily at lvl 30 -31.

And riding 12...

Now I wasn't saying they are counters to HAs, but I was saying that they are in no way in need of a rebalance.