Classic vs New cRPG

[Dezilagel]

I know the balance of old cRPG is terrible, but as I "always" said, when the game is fun and unserious, balance is but a minor problem. New cRPG is like over 9000+ other online arcade (read: no grinding) games, all about a super serious skill contest. Old cRPG was unique in the sense that it mixed a very skill-based gameplay (even with 10+ level differences, a duel ends up with the best player winning), MMO-like grinding (addictive) and an overall fun and trolly atmosphere.

The "super serious" part is more of a player issue, especially noticeable in strat.

But I don't think you have the same perspective as me on these things.

As a new player, the fact that skill was the major decider of the outcome of a (melee) battle was what allowed me to quickly get into the game, and get good at it. If I had never had the chance of duelling against some of the best players on a roughly equal playing field, but would have been forced to always play in the shadow of the sick grinders then I would have never been able to develop, get into a clan and do all the stuff that is *fun* for me in this game.

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Oh and as a sidenoet: While you can win a duel as a lv 20 char against someone who is lv 30, it is quite hard to do so, and the players are definitively not on a "roughly equal playing field". Add to that the old op-as-fuck looms, wpf to handle plate no problems, weapons so fast they completely break animations etc. and you have, imo, not a duel anymore.

[Kafein]

The "super serious" part is more of a player issue, especially noticeable in strat.

But I don't think you have the same perspective as me on these things.

As a new player, the fact that skill was the major decider of the outcome of a (melee) battle was what allowed me to quickly get into the game, and get good at it. If I had never had the chance of duelling against some of the best players on a roughly equal playing field, but would have been forced to always play in the shadow of the sick grinders then I would have never been able to develop, get into a clan and do all the stuff that is *fun* for me in this game.

(click to show/hide)

Oh and as a sidenoet: While you can win a duel as a lv 20 char against someone who is lv 30, it is quite hard to do so, and the players are definitively not on a "roughly equal playing field". Add to that the old op-as-fuck looms, wpf to handle plate no problems, weapons so fast they completely break animations etc. and you have, imo, not a duel anymore.

Of course the playing field is not equal. But that only makes defeating someone that has better gear more satisfying, and being killed by the same guy less frustrating. The thing is, winning or loosing only has minor consequences with the old system. Sometimes you even have to team up against some players. An uneven playing field creates "boss" players which are challenging to kill (but certainly not impossible within 10 levels up or down, at least when it's not HA vs melee). Even playing fields become dull very fast (2011 cRPG shows this). 2011 cRPG is like a medieval CS, in every possible meaning.

2010 cRPG allows the player to be a peasant during a decent amount of time, learning the game without having to be effective. It doesn't throw the player into the battle with full potential and full responsibility. At first, the goals when you play are modest (surviving, landing a hit...) then when you catch up with medium levels, you start making kills consistently, but high level enemies are still a challenge. When you reach the higher levels, then you'll always find people that are either better or with better stats than you, but you have good chances against most of the playerbase. Of course, this also comes with a "duty" of actually being effective (autobalance takes level into account, high levels will be outnumbered). What is good is that you always have people with better stats and lesser stats than you, increasing the diversity of battles. Some are easy, some a though. But skill always remains the most important factor.

[Xant]

That's how it's still like, only it doesn't take take months of no-lifing to be roughly as effective as the top level guys.

[BlackMilk]

But skill always remains the most important factor.

false.

[Nessaj]

There's some aspects of the old cRPG that's good and all, no doubt about it, for example I would prefer the old XP/GOLD (or even the area one) over multiplier, because multiplier makes people quit as soon as they drop down to x1, or they due to having it for ages no matter how good they do due to auto team (im)balance - absolute banner balance would no doubt fix that though.

BUT, in essence the old cRPG is nothing else than a chance to truly have an overpowered character, either on levels, gear or what not. 100% that most people who prefer it do it for the sole reason of being able to stomp a lot of people with worse gear, specs or level, once you've retired a bunch of times, got the WPF far up, got a bunch of levels etc, the game becomes incredibly unbalanced, yes you can still beat a high level overpowered guy, but that is not due to a level playing field IN ANY WAY, it is due to those people sucking, so obviously they suck even more in new cRPG with a level playing field.

IMO the only reason to play the old cRPG for real is because you do not like an equal playing field.

Not that the current cRPG is flawless, hey what game is though, but so far I haven't seen a single good suggestion anywhere - ever - that could solve the XP/Gold system properly. Pioneer work gentlemen.

[Gurnisson]

IMO the only reason to play the old cRPG for real is because you do not like an equal playing field.

It's not as serious, which brings more fun. At least that's my opinion of it.

[Xant]

How is it not as serious as new c-RPG? I think it's all about how serious you make it, you don't have to take the new one seriously either.

[slothscott]

Although there is still incentive to win no multiplier just makes it feel more relaxed.

[BlindGuy]

check the poll results before 'a lot of players etc..'
It's sitting at 40% prefer classic coke, warts and all. The other 60% had no clue how to play a peasant anyway, and would rather play a more cerebral (i.e. tailored for slow thinkers) game like chess

lol that you compare muscle memory and twitch reaction to chess...

[Xant]

M&B combat system rewards good thinking as much as twitch reactions and muscle memory.

[Konrax]

I kind of wish that the new crpg was a lot more like the old one in that:

The gold rate needs to me 10-20% it is now, so that you actually have to save up to get good gear, but the upkeep should also be 10-20% of what it is now.

Same exact thing, just it takes a bit longer to get the fancy equipment like in old crpg. When I played that I remember saving up for days to buy studded undercoat and thinking that hey, now I actually count on the battlefield.

[SixThumbs]

Old cRPG sounds like whoever plays the most gets to play the game like single-player Warband; riding around fully armored with a 120+ length sword on a horse mindlessly swinging at enemies who have no chance of hitting or hurting you as everyone else bunches into a herd.

[SixThumbs]

I kind of wish that the new crpg was a lot more like the old one in that:

The gold rate needs to me 10-20% it is now, so that you actually have to save up to get good gear, but the upkeep should also be 10-20% of what it is now.

Same exact thing, just it takes a bit longer to get the fancy equipment like in old crpg. When I played that I remember saving up for days to buy studded undercoat and thinking that hey, now I actually count on the battlefield.

That sounds all well and good. Did you think of what would happen if that would be implemented right now? I'd be sitting around with all my high-tier items while anyone who's starting gets some change thrown at them every once and a while, oh, and I pay less taxes.

[Zisa]

Old cRPG sounds like whoever plays the most gets to play the game like single-player Warband; riding around fully armored with a 120+ length sword on a horse mindlessly swinging at enemies who have no chance of hitting or hurting you as everyone else bunches into a herd.

Sigh.. and this sounds like the uninformed opinion of someone who has not tried it.

[Loar Avel]

Old CRPG is fun, because now it's paysan war, and a lot of player can't do anything without their heavy lordly armor and masterwork weapon.

Their soo easier to kill   


I also prefer the old XP/GOLD, tick is good, but XP and gold indexed on the number of death is more rewarding.
We should use the old way for Xp and gold, but for the fight happening in all the map.


Except that... New is much better, balanced etc, etc, etc...