Few things to fix in crossbows. [If you dont want to buff damage back]

[Dravic]

Welcome,

Here i come with some suggestions about xbows fixing.

First:

Buff hunting and light xbows +4 to basic shot speed. Every next xbow (above these two) until sniper one buff + 2 to shot speed. Sniper xbow buff should be +1 to shot speed.

Example of what is now:

Nomad bow:
weight 1.25
requirement 3
spd rtng 66
shoot speed 46
thrust damage 20 cut
accuracy 94
Gen1= 66spd 47shspd 21cut 94acc
Gen2= 67spd 48shspd 22cut 95acc
Gen3= 68spd 49shspd 23cut 96acc

Light xbow:

weight 2.5
requirement 7
spd rtng 34
shoot speed 46
thrust damage 45 pierce
max ammo 1
accuracy 89
Gen1= 35spd 47shspd 48pierce 90acc
Gen2= 36spd 49shspd 50pierce 91acc
Gen3= 37spd 50shspd 52pierce 92acc

I think bolded shot speeds are jokes. Bolts should fly faster than arrows. Even a bit faster...

Second:

Make that so every point above 150 wpf in xbows still gives actual advantage. For now, one person did some tests and it shows, that there is no point in putting in xbows more than 150 wpf. I would like to put 180 in xbows, but it doesnt matter - i say: give us more accuracy if we are going to put wpfs above 150 points.

Thats all for now.

Discuss.

[EponiCo]

Why do bolts have to fly faster than arrows?
I see many crossbowmen (including mounted ones) who are doing fine, more than (horse) archers actually.

Also keep in mind that the archer will have to spend extra skillpoints on strength and PD. A PD 5 strongbow horsearcher will still do less damage than the light crossbow and that already makes it hard to get to 4 horse archery without gimping your character otherwise. The horse crossbowman can easily stop at str 12 and call it a day - skills go in PS, athletics, etc. instead.

The wpf suggestion is good, but I think there are some hard limits how accurate weapons can be (which cannot be overcome without introducing potentially exploitable mechanics like archery formula before the patch).

edit: From a realism standpoint. Let's recap that projectile speed = squareroot(2*draw strength*draw length/projectile mass)  (*efficiency factor).
Now, since bows and light crossbows are drawn the same way essentially, the draw strength of the crossbowman can't be higher than that of a bowman who regularily trains (skillpoints), but the length is shorter, so realistically a hand drawn crossbow would always be weaker (either less damage or less speed) than a hand drawn bow. Only crossbows with special loading mechanisms could be more powerful than bows.

[Gorath]

Realism should be left to the wayside Eponi.

I agree with increased projectile speed for x-bows.  They are sniper weapons given their long reload time (ages).  Since we don't want to increase the damage or reload rate of x-bows, which let's face it are the red-headed stepchild of ranged weaponry atm beneath their throwing overlords, increasing projectile speed is the best way to give them a slight boost.  Since you only get one shot most times and cannot just spam a hail of projectiles into the air around someone's general direction you want that bolt to fly straight, true and fast.  I'm sure everyone can attest that with current bolt speeds it's almost like watching it come at you in bullet-time, giving you ample time to bullet-dodge out of the way as if you're Neo.

[EponiCo]

Yeah, I just added the thing in case he was coming from realism.
Anyway my point was that the light crossbow shouldn't have a faster arrow speed than bows for the balance reasons I added. If both crossbows and bows are increased, or only the sniper that might be a different matter.  Bows cower in fear of the throwing overlords, too. ^^

[Gorath]

Anyway my point was that the light crossbow shouldn't have a faster arrow speed than bows for the balance reasons I added. If both crossbows and bows are increased, or only the sniper that might be a different matter.  Bows cower in fear of the throwing overlords, too. ^^

Personally I think only the x-bow, heavy x-bow and sniper x-bow's should get the projectile speed increase as that's where you start getting into the redonkulous reload speeds.  Perhaps even just the heavy and sniper.  However the heavier xbows, while the model doesn't show it, seem to reload as if they are actually winch drawn x-bows rather than hand-drawn (you can draw a hand drawn x-bow amazingly fast compared to in-game).

[Rumblood]

I see no reason why xbow's should receive any buff at all. Certainly I don't see why a 1-shot kill should be sped up to where it can't be dodged by an aware opponent over range.

If xbows are the red-headed stepchild to throwing, then NERF throwing. Xbows need 0 buff in any way. That slow draw speed and flight speed BALANCE that huge PIERCE damage type that 1-shots most people on the battlefield.

[Dravic]

Wake up, there was dmg nerf for xbows. We live in postpatch time, not prepatch!

[Rumblood]

Wake up, there was dmg nerf for xbows. We live in postpatch time, not prepatch!

There was a much larger nerf to archery. Welcome to postpatch! You're just lucky that your damage type doesn't get changed to cut on top of it!

[Dravic]

Im scared, that chadz gonna see what you posted and then will do it. And post an evil post in this topic such like:

[Rumblood]

Im scared, that chadz gonna see what you posted and then will do it. And post an evil post in this topic such like:

Noooo! Im happy with the balance! If he did that, I would be clamoring for buff along with you 

[Lestos]

erm since when do x-bows one shot since the patch? besides the low level gen one guys which even then thats just luck..... ive got 3 different x-bows the light the heavy and the normal x-bow. so far the only use ive found for the light x-bow is to bring 30 steel bolts and fire above peoples head at medium range hoping for a head shot which then yes there is ure 1 shot kill most of the time. heavy is 2 damn slow to be of practical use unless i want to camp and fire across the map. the only practical x-bow for a decent battle is the normal x-bow. which even then 2-3 shots are required for most guys in light medium armour. 6 shots or more on plate which woohoo there goes half my bolts just for one guy if they all hit and assuming he dosnt have a shield. not saying i dont like the x-bow but if reload speed and damage arent going to be buffed, which thats fine i do like where they are it would be nice to have a shot speed boost even if its small

[Trael]

I see no reason why xbow's should receive any buff at all. Certainly I don't see why a 1-shot kill should be sped up to where it can't be dodged by an aware opponent over range.

If xbows are the red-headed stepchild to throwing, then NERF throwing. Xbows need 0 buff in any way. That slow draw speed and flight speed BALANCE that huge PIERCE damage type that 1-shots most people on the battlefield.

Sniper + steel rarely oneshot anyone wearing any clothing in crpg these days, even nonclothet enemies are no longer sure kills...

see "Dedicated Crossbowmen - where have they gone?"
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1357.0.html

also fact that sniper crossbow is least accurate of crossbows.
and also fact that wpf over 135 or so seems to mostly effect just reloads, instead of reload and accuracy, based on charts seen.

[Xant]

Crossbow is fine and if you are good you can do very well with it.

[Spawny]

I've seen some pretty annoying (nasty) guys with light crossbows on horsies.

They're anti cav and they hurt a lot when they charge at someone and fire that bolt close range. Speedbonus makes the bolt deadly.

It would still take multiple bolts to kill people, but if you take out the horses on 3 enemy cavs, you saved the lives of at least 3 teammates.

[Dravic]

I've seen some pretty annoying (nasty) guys with light crossbows on horsies.

They're anti cav and they hurt a lot when they charge at someone and fire that bolt close range. Speedbonus makes the bolt deadly.

It would still take multiple bolts to kill people, but if you take out the horses on 3 enemy cavs, you saved the lives of at least 3 teammates.

Do you want to know why we are coming so close? Because at bigger range our bolts arent 100% accurate due to... low shot speed. Our bolts fly slower than most of horses.