Rethinking Archery [Please Offer Criticism]

[Noble Crassius]

A nicely written well thought out post. Although if some one digs enough and looks specifically enough they will probably find some error, however in the grand scheme of the post I have to agree. This simple progression trend needs to be snipped. I personally like your suggestion on how to rebalance bows I hope it or something like it will be implemented.

[Beans]

A great post in a forum usually full of shit. Good stuff.

[Ujin]

Archery is fine the way it is. Only good archers top the scoreboard, thats the way its supposed to be. You guys should try heirlooming your bow, it really improves the quality of the bows alot. Archery is already really strong and if throwing gets nerfed in the new patch, archery will shine even brighter.

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[Gorath]

Overall I absolutely agree Mouse.  In fact I think every weapon type should undergo this kind of balancing act.  More significant trade-offs instead of 1-2 (sometimes up to 4) top tier weapons and everything else is self-gimping for the sake of style.  I'm sure the post could be nitpicked, but overall the idea behind the post is absolutely correct imo.

[justme]

i was hoping to see installing critical damage which would bring 50% more damage... for bows there could be 2% chance to happen , and for xbows 5%..

[Murchad]

Rather than having bows posess mystical abilities I think bows should be balanced in a more realistic manner

shorter bows should have worse accuracy especially at long range

hunting bow should be good accuracy -
weaker bows should haven decent dmg up close but steep dropoff for long range shots

weak bows you can hold up drawn a lot longer without reticule opening up

so for long range the powerful bows will have a huge advantage but for close range the weaker bows will have slight advantage due to rof.

[UrLukur]

Overall I absolutely agree Mouse.  In fact I think every weapon type should undergo this kind of balancing act.  More significant trade-offs instead of 1-2 (sometimes up to 4) top tier weapons and everything else is self-gimping for the sake of style.  I'm sure the post could be nitpicked, but overall the idea behind the post is absolutely correct imo.

Offering more good options is always welcome, i would like o see more bows overall, but in current situation make all but one viable choice for endgame char.

[Elmetiacos]

Yeah, cause cRPG with its range of equipment from the dark ages up to the renaissance and weapon passing through people's body without impairing them in any real way and god knows how many other things, is clearly a simulation. Gameplay > realism. Always has, always wil. As to the actual suggestion, I have no idea, other than to say I like the idea of weapons fufilling different roles instead of just being a lineair progression.

It doesn't have to be a perfect simulation for people to think in simulationist terms, which quite a lot do, whether they're justified in doing so or not.

[KO3AK]

I hope chadz will make some changes.

[[ptx]]

What you are missing mouse, is that longbow has 96 base accuracy right now. I used a MW Longbow until the heirloom theft, that had 98 accuracy. With 6 PD and some 160-170 wpf... it really wasn't that accurate. Even with 99 or 100 accuracy it wouldn't be nowhere near accurate with 7 PD at lvl30 or 31. You can only boost the stats so much.

Ideas are interesting, of course, but would be a fucking pain to balance, i imagine. And i really am not sure if they would ever get balanced better than they could be with the current system.

TBH, archery was at its best balance before the arrow damage buff. Perhaps some buff to bow damage would have still been okay to please some of the complaints. Arrow damage buff is what makes the longbow as crap as it is right now, relative to other bows.

[bruce]

TBH, archery was at its best balance before the arrow damage buff. Perhaps some buff to bow damage would have still been okay to please some of the complaints. Arrow damage buff is what makes the longbow as crap as it is right now, relative to other bows.

True. Before the arrow damage buff PD mattered so much - sure a str build couldn't keep up with the accuracy or volume of fire in a ranged fight, but the damage difference was really big, now... not so much.

Increasing the bow damage would have made more sense, imo, especially for the higher end bows like the longbow.

[Riddaren]

"I like the idea of weapons fufilling different roles instead of just being a lineair progression."

I agree


A bit OT:
Even though the archer has been heavily nerfed (slower shot speed and cutting damage) you still see people with a kd ratio of 10:1 playing archers.
Also, it's still a very good counter vs unarmoured horses. If I (being a light lancer / HA) try to take on a good archer he WILL kill my horse.

That being said, I don't think archery is underpowered.

My character is kind of screwed up right now having points in all skills but Ironflesh and Athletics. Still I find horse archery pretty useful with only 4 PD, 3 HA and 130 WPF.

[Mouse]

What you are missing mouse, is that longbow has 96 base accuracy right now. I used a MW Longbow until the heirloom theft, that had 98 accuracy. With 6 PD and some 160-170 wpf... it really wasn't that accurate. Even with 99 or 100 accuracy it wouldn't be nowhere near accurate with 7 PD at lvl30 or 31. You can only boost the stats so much.

Ideas are interesting, of course, but would be a fucking pain to balance, i imagine. And i really am not sure if they would ever get balanced better than they could be with the current system.

TBH, archery was at its best balance before the arrow damage buff. Perhaps some buff to bow damage would have still been okay to please some of the complaints. Arrow damage buff is what makes the longbow as crap as it is right now, relative to other bows.

Assuming 100 is the maximum accuracy as you suggest (which is a good point to bring up) you can still reduce the accuracy of other bows and then rescale the WPF/PD accuracy curve to get the kind of effect I'm looking for.

Furthermore, this thread isn't entirely about balance. It's mostly about making the archery game more interesting and diverse. All weapons, shields and armor could all use a similar adjustment. For example, where are the really light-weight expensive armors (like native's Sarranid guard armor) with higher armor value? Where is the cheap armor with higher armor value but absurd weight and strength requirements? They would be easier to work with in some ways, but bows make for the smallest test case.

[bruce]

where are the really light-weight expensive armors (like native's Sarranid guard armor) with higher armor value

I know where they'd be, on 50% of the players.

People in CRPG try to use the most "effective" stuff, it's just like that. Upkeep and level limits did a good job bringing diversity to the table, but obviously people will not choose a vastly inferior option regardless of cost.

[[ptx]]

Eh, well, perhaps scaling archery wpf to something higher + nerfing the accuracy of other bows and also their speed, to compensate for WPF speed bonus might work.