Make awlpike unusable with shield AND/OR make ashwood pike usable with shield

[Thucydides]

Alright so this Gen i respecced into a hoplite and i have to say, shield with awlpike is the ugliest and silliest thing ever. There is no incentive for any hoplite to choose any spear thats not an awlpike. Not only does it have the highest damage, it also has the longest reach of all 1 handed spears. Sure it's slower by 3 speed than it's counterpart the warspear, and it only has 2 directions of attack, but why would a hoplite need anything but a thrust to do damage? Furthermore, the ability to turn into your swings nullifies any speed bonus you may have, since the length of the awlpike means you can make a crescent of death that outreaches the warspear's crescent of death. Combined with the no shield rapid fire stabpolestun and you have the most versitile weapon, high damaging weapon a hoplite could use.

Also, from a realism perspective, no one uses an awlpike with a shield. I have yet to hear of any sources discussing awlpikes being used with one hand and a shield, and the rondel guard suggests that it was mainly used as a 2h weapon.I know realism isn't an argument, but chadz and Co. wants Crpg to reflect the combat of the middle ages, and in the middle ages (renaissance technically) the awlpike was used in 2 hands to pierce plate, not in one hand like a hoplite.

Either remove the awlpike's ability to be used with a shield, or make the ashwood pike usable with shield. The ashwood has an equal range compared to the Awlpike, which means that you can actually go toe to toe with an awlpike user without being at a severe disadvantage. Perferably, i'd like to see the awlpike removed as a hoplite weaon, but i know how many people will whine so it seems more practical to ask for an alternative to it.

[Digglez]

awlpike needs its dmg brought in line with other spears,  29 or 30 MAX.



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HELLO ITEM BALANCE TEAM, 75% or more of spear users are carrying awlpikes

[Thucydides]

i dont even care about the damage, the length makes fighting them incredibly difficult in a battle as a hoplite.

[Digglez]

i dont even care about the damage, the length makes fighting them incredibly difficult in a battle as a hoplite.

It is 5 damage more than comparable weapons (warspear, light lance).  For what reason, just because its more expensive?  Even 2h swords & axes dont have that big a variance.

[Thucydides]

It is 5 damage more than comparable weapons (warspear, light lance).  For what reason, just because its more expensive?  Even 2h swords & axes dont have that big a variance.

Its pierce too, so in the age of platemail this means a ton more. No player, unless they like being gimped for the challenge, would ever choose a warspear over an awlpike.

Personally i'd prefer having it not used with a shield, rather than a damage nerf. High pierce makes it a useful can opener.

[Vibe]

Those awlpikes hurt D:

[Vexus]

Ashwood needs some love it's such a nice spear but rarely anyone uses it as there are better spears.

[Laufknoten]

Personally i'd prefer having it not used with a shield, rather than a damage nerf. High pierce makes it a useful can opener.

This.
It was ment to be used with 2 hands and was even used as a duel weapon, if I remember it right. So no Awlpike hoplites anymore please. Even though I'd feel a bit sorry for KingGylpe.

[Ufthak]

Speaking as a warspear user, the awlpike is an (obviously) superior hoplite weapon, but if you have any intention of putting your shield away the warspear does have its advantages. However, the awlpike is still an absolute no-brainer for anyone looking to be a dedicated hoplite. That said, it might be better to buff the warspear and red tassal spear instead of nerfing the awlpike.  As stated, taking a few damage off isn't really going to do much because it's the reach of the weapon that makes it so powerful, and at this point making it unusable with shield would simply hurt too many people. It would be utterly unfair for them to remove shielded awlpikes without at least converting the upgrades to heirloom points first.

As it stands now, the poleaxe at +0 has equal pierce to a +3 warspear, and over double the sideswing damage. This makes sense and was fine, but with polestun going out the window, 4-directional hoplite weapons are going to take a massive hit compared to the awlpike or dedicated two handed polearms. On heavily armored opponents, it was already taking as many as 7 hits occasionally with anything short of 8 powerstrike. Maybe giving the warspear and red tassal a few more blunt on the sideswings would be a better way to make them more competitive with other polearms after they remove polestun?

I've also heard they already plan on making the ashwood usable with a shield next patch, which makes sense because the bamboo is longer and already is. Isn't the awlpike better pretty much all-around except in price though? 

[Thucydides]

Speaking as a warspear user, the awlpike is an (obviously) superior hoplite weapon, but if you have any intention of putting your shield away the warspear does have its advantages. However, the awlpike is still an absolute no-brainer for anyone looking to be a dedicated hoplite. That said, it might be better to buff the warspear and red tassal spear instead of nerfing the awlpike.  As stated, taking a few damage off isn't really going to do much because it's the reach of the weapon that makes it so powerful, and at this point making it unusable with shield would simply hurt too many people. It would be utterly unfair for them to remove shielded awlpikes without at least converting the upgrades to heirloom points first.

As it stands now, the poleaxe at +0 has equal pierce to a +3 warspear, and over double the sideswing damage. This makes sense and was fine, but with polestun going out the window, 4-directional hoplite weapons are going to take a massive hit compared to the awlpike or dedicated two handed polearms. On heavily armored opponents, it was already taking as many as 7 hits occasionally with anything short of 8 powerstrike. Maybe giving the warspear and red tassal a few more blunt on the sideswings would be a better way to make them more competitive with other polearms after they remove polestun?

I've also heard they already plan on making the ashwood usable with a shield next patch, which makes sense because the bamboo is longer and already is. Isn't the awlpike better pretty much all-around except in price though?

yes, it is. Except for the length

[Huey Newton]

Even though balance isn't based off realism in this mod, just think about this.
The half of this weapon is steel. And its a very large weapon. Therefore, using it with 1h hand along with a shield would be extremely difficult. The only way I could see this being done is if your one non-shielder bearing hand was holding the awlpike very far up the shaft.(heh)
Thus reducing its range, and damage, as their is less muscle being used to thrust it= less power.
look at this video. (yes i know this show is retarded and very historically inaccurate for the most part, but this is one piece it got right for once
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy6y9oXkjCo&feature=player_detailpage

Hes right about it being heavy, especially toward the tip, and not likely to be used with a shield.

Considering the way polearm hitboxes work atm, I would think making this weapon unusable with a shield would make alot of sense.

[owens]

remember the awlpike looks dog when compared to the Ashwood Pike.

As it stands the ashwood is slightly to short to be a comfortable (i didnt say it was ineffective)  anti lancer weapon but the ability to easily block couched lances and projectiles could change this.

[Canary]

It would make sense that the slightly worse weapon, in this case the ashwood pike, would be the one with more versatility, not less.

The ashwood pike has 1 more length, 1 more overhead blunt damage and is cheaper than the awlpike, but it sacrifices 2 speed and 2 piercing thrust damage, which in these amounts are much more important. On top of these discrepancies, it is also can't be sheathed and  can't be used with a shield, both of which the awlpike can do. Comparing them, where is the balance, here? In the price difference?

I also don't believe it's the mere amount of reach that makes the awlpike good as a hoplite weapon, it's the balanced length it has. For example, the bamboo spear is much longer and also useable with a shield, but it's not a better hoplite weapon. Its lower damage hinders it, yes, but the extra reach make it a lot more unwieldy as well, since the polearm-with-shield hitbox is fairly off-center, adding that much more reach makes it more difficult to land a hit that doesn't bounce or hit the ground.

Anyway, the high-reach-high-damage hoplite weapon niche must remain filled for great justice, whether it's by the awlpike or not. Giving the ashwood pike a use beyond obsolete style weapon would be nice.

[Spawny]

Maybe remove the 30% damage penalty spears 150 reach and shorter get when used with a shield.

[Thucydides]

Maybe remove the 30% damage penalty spears 150 reach and shorter get when used with a shield.

might make warspear and lower a bit too powerful