Why Upkeep is a Little TOO Realistic, or: Why Math is Awesome.

[Gorath]

but what is your point with this?

The fact that if you ride a x3 for a round you will probably get only 1-2 ticks max, then map is over and chance decides whether you return to x1 or not.  Was just saying that you can't really count on the multiplicator much at all unless your clan is farming the server and riding the x5.  Best bet:  Sell your first 2 heirloom points and ignore upkeep forever more.  Game was entirely different once I broke the 2 million gold mark.

[Dehitay]

LMFAO
This is hilarious cause almost everybody is leaning towards being wrong. While he doesn't explain his probabilities well, they are actually correct because of the implied infinite scale. He's not explaining based on a set time period so this is as time goes to infinity. With that scale, indeed, each item on average will have a 20% chance of breaking every 5 minutes, on average 1 item out of 5 will break every 5 minutes, and on average a 5 piece outfit will break every 25 minutes. I would hope you understand why as time goes to infinity, an item stand a 20% chance of breaking every 5 minutes. With five 20% chances, 1 will also break on average as time goes to infinity. And not only will a 5 piece outfit break every 25 minutes, every single item will break over 25 minutes with a 4% break chance as time goes to infinity.

However, there are two things about his math that jump out at me

one tick of income is generated every 5 minutes.
- assuming an average multiplier of x3, you will earn 300 gold every five minutes.
- in 25 minutes you will earn an average of 1500 gold.

- 1500*.07=21428.

Unless chadz has changed income since I became less active, a x3 multiplier will net you 750 gold every five minutes
50 x 3 x 5 = 750
so in 25 minutes, you would actually get 3750 gold.

Also, 1500 * .07 does not equal 21428
1500 / .07 would be the way to go here

[Tears of Destiny]

I would agree with the infinite scale if we were closer to it, a mere 5 times makes it hard to achieve, as 18% is not close enough to 20% to make me say "close enough" like usual applications of the infinite scale do. 

Time is not close enough to "infinity" to make me happy for this specific application of infinity. 

We could say that there is "practically" a 100% chance of an item breaking over the course of a thousand ticks, or a million, or even further as we "approach" infinity. Hell even with 100 ticks you could satisfy me by using infinity in that manner, but in this specific application a mere 5 ticks is too far away from infinity and in the realm of extremely workable and comprehendable numbers.


19.999999997% is roughly equivalent to 20%

but in this case:
18.463% is not roughly equivalent to 20%

Bad Dehitay!

[Leshma]

tick no. 170

breaking chance 0.999 or 99.9%

That round would last almost 3 hours. Currently not possible in c-rpg because of round limit but I bet some leechers or some roof monkeys would actually prolong that much if it was possible...

[Gawin]

now we need the voice of chadz in here.

I SUMMON THEE chadz! COME OUT AND HELP US LEARN MATH!

[Leshma]

Or Paul, or cmp or...

...anyone old enough who attended university and finished it....

[Braeden]

Include how wpf reduces break chance if you want an accurate reading.

[Apsod]

The fact that if you ride a x3 for a round you will probably get only 1-2 ticks max, then map is over and chance decides whether you return to x1 or not.  Was just saying that you can't really count on the multiplicator much at all unless your clan is farming the server and riding the x5.  Best bet:  Sell your first 2 heirloom points and ignore upkeep forever more.  Game was entirely different once I broke the 2 million gold mark.

I still don`t get what you are trying to tell me.

I was simply telling the OP that you got 750 gold for 5 minutes of x3 and not 300.

[[ptx]]

The correct answer is 42.

[Tzar]

~21.5k is barely enough money for a set of cheap medium armor and a weapon. Players depending on an average income are forced to wear this sort of meager gear, while long term multi-generational characters with huge stockpiles of money are able to wear whatever they want. I frequently see vets running (or worse, riding) around in full plate with masterwork weapons. Newer players flail impotently against them, then are cut down in a single hit. It reminds me all too much of rich medieval knights in their shining armor, passed down from generation to generation, cutting down hordes of poor helpless peasants. This sort of wealth gap may be realistic, but it's certainly not fun - at least for the majority that are on the receiving end.

True i agree but good luck getting any sorta sympathy here cRPG is a hardcore grinders paradise.....

Now suck it up n start grinding instead of waisting your time here on the forums 

[Tristan]

Math is obviously too awesome for you guys to handle it comfortably

(click to show/hide)

Not that I cared read the thread... Just funny seeing a technobabble discussion for once

[bagge]

I worked this out assuming an average multiplier of x2 and it's around 38500 gold, which is a good amount in my opinion.

Calculation follows:
One item
Expected loss=P(break)*Cost of break
                      =P(break)*aC   where a=0.07 and C =gear cost
n items
Expected loss=[P(break)a(C1)]+[P(break)a(C2)]+......
                      =P(break)a(Total gear cost)
Ok now you get 100 gold per tick so:
100/(a*P(break)=max sustainable gear cost~38500 gold

I trust in Quantum the Mathman

[Braeden]

Also, my horse costs 22k.  I make money.

[Redemption]

Math? fcksiofnhsiofiusjfosnklvjioaejhakld

[Rusty_Shacklefjord]

Yeah, I realize now that my math is off by some degree. At the very least the axiom regarding earnings is wrong, since x1 is only 50 gold per tick and the ticks are once a minute.