Round Shields...(Nerf thread)

[Diomedes]

Turning a blind eye to the obvious fact that OUR ATTACK SPEEDS ARE ON PAR WITH EVERY OTHER CLASS AND OUR DEFENSE GREATER THAN ANY OTHER CLASS.

Shields:
+ make it easier to defend one's front
+ stop arrows, throwing weapons, and most bolts coming from certain directions
+ a sense of confidence
- require shield skill points
- cost money
- are heavy
- break, making them useful for a limited time in each battle
-- a breaking shield can momentarily stun the one holding it
-- once the shield is broken, the player is most often left with a one-handed weapon - a relative handicap in most hand-to-hand situations
- limit the player to only attacking with one handed weapons, stabbing spears, and throwing weapons
-- one handed weapons are shorter, do less damage, and are often slower than their statistical attack speed because of the shield

They're not overpowered or underpowered.  They're just a reliable choice for any player who wants to invest in their benefits, that's all.  I originally switched to a sword and board because I got sick of Kesh turning me into a pin cushion pre-patch.

[Gorath]

#1 after their shield breaks the defense simply drops to on par with that of a 2h/pa its not an handicap that it breaks it SHOULD break and faster than it does!

It absolutely is a handicap.  Once it's broken and the 1her is manual blocking without a shield he is disadvantaged vs 2hers and polearms in range, damage and unless using a very select few swords even speed (especially when factoring in weapon stun from weight differences).

Making shields SLOWER is the opposite of what we should do! or it seems that people prefer turtles over warriors...humph well played crpg community you made a cynic more cynical today. Leave it to shielders to be the most conservative force out there. Turning a blind eye to the obvious fact that OUR ATTACK SPEEDS ARE ON PAR WITH EVERY OTHER CLASS AND OUR DEFENSE GREATER THAN ANY OTHER CLASS. The game trys to balance it out by making us slow as shit but I don't want to run slow as shit, or feint slow as shit. but if you turtles are happy with that meh keep your class. I wash my hands of calling you people brothers.

You're calling for a nerf of the huscarl shield, and the round shield line in general.  We are saying that we think an HP nerf is the wrong way to go about it and that we would rather the speed of those shields be nerfed IF ANYTHING.  Most of us don't think they need a nerf at all.  You say you don't want to run slow as shit, or feint slow as shit, and I STILL say:  Use a different shield.  There are faster shields in the line.  The problem is that they don't feel noticably faster which is where the problem lies.  So I say improve the speed of the other shields (kite, heaters).  This gives a more noticable effect of using those shields opposed to the de-facto huscarl (or other round shields).  Hell, use the elite cav shield.  It's got decent durability and it's 100 speed with less weight.  You won't run as slow, and you won't feint as slow (supposedly, this is where the feel of the shield belies it's stats as it doesn't feel much faster than the huscarl at all imo).

Point is, don't like the weight and shit of the huscarl?  Use a different shield.  The brown heater shield I posted has 410 HP and 96 speed (I think).  It weighs less and has very good HP.  Use that one.

If only you people could move past the nerf aspect  I tried working with you by suggesting lower encumbrance and raising speed (You all want it you said so) but apparently your nto willing to sacrifice HP for it? so it comes down to : most 1handers want a buff to their class  whats new

You're suggesting a nerf to a weapon class that doesn't really need one.  You're also refusing to use anything but the round shields or huscarl by saying the other shields suck in comparison.  Given that opinion, which most of us share, I/we suggest buffing the other shields in some area to give a better choice of shields based upon what you want in your shield.  The huscarl is a turtle shield (or it's supposed to be), that's it's function and design.  A fighting shield should be one of the smaller heater shields or kite shields.  So make those more attractive for that role than they are.

[Xant]

Buffing other shields would serve no purpose but to make 1h more OP. Currently they're tanks (mediocre players can keep even the best players busy for a loooooooong time and have a chance of killing them too), damage dealers, and speedmachines. They're a master-of-all-trades class right now. Even if their shield is destroyed, you're at no disadvantage compared to a 2her if you have a decent 1h weapon, like long Espada Eslavona. People who would otherwise be mediocre at best can top the scoreboards with awesome KDRs if they just equip some heavy armor and a decent 1her.

[kura]

I hate invisible wall from legs to head,another ok.

[bruce]

People who would otherwise be mediocre at best can top the scoreboards with awesome KDRs if they just equip some heavy armor and a decent 1her.

Such BS, it's five time easier to do with a polearm then 1h+shield.

Anyway. What's your problem with seeing more different shields on the field so it doesn't look like huscarl huscarl huscarl huscarl knightly heather huscarl huscarl huscarl?

[Xant]

Such BS, it's five time easier to do with a polearm then 1h+shield.

Anyway. What's your problem with seeing more different shields on the field so it doesn't look like huscarl huscarl huscarl huscarl knightly heather huscarl huscarl huscarl?

How is it easier? How /can/ it be easier? Answer: It isn't, and it can't be, you don't have RMB of invincibility.

And I don't have a problem with that. Just nerf huscarl instead of buffing other shields.

[Vicious666]

this 3d is the most idiotic things i ever saw in my life

basicly  you wanna nerf  the only things that give  a + to be 1 hander, a shield



1hander  plus:
survivability thx to  shield defence vs cut user/arro/ throw   (even if a bardiche x3 loomed destroy a huscarl in 3-4 hit, and 2 throwing lance destroy even a steel shield )
ability to fight multiple opponents,   with less skill than a 2hander      (no need to manual block different attacks from different direction)

so we have +2 good things vs  8 negative


1hander negative:

speed/movement   even at same atheletics thx to shield we move slower.
reach        top reach 105, vs what  155 2h, and what 190+  pole?
dmg         top dmg probably is a broadaxe 3x loomed,  40 dmg,    vs what ,  50? 55? 60 ?
animation issue    (a fucking 85 2h speed is faster than a 100 1h speed+shield  )
invisibile reach (yes  xant we not have 140  reach like your german/danish sword  lolstab abuse )   
no furter bonus from our skill   = like pole who stun  with everything   
less wpf  cause by more weight
upkeep   (our upkeep 1h+shield is 60-70% more than   2hander/pole upkeep,          example?  eslavona+huscarl is 17k,     danish sword? 11-12k )






a mediocre 1h die to  first 2hander who  oneshoot him /feints.
on other side even a mediocre 2hander who spam, can kill  good player,    cause reach+speed+dmg+animation+movement +invisibile reach advantage

[Xant]

Lol vicious. Does everyone play with the top reach weapons? Have you actually tried to play with Flamberge? Reach isn't an issue, even WITHOUT a shield. You can block once and then facehug. With a shield, you don't even need to block correctly.

And damage, again, does everyone use a flamberge? No.

Animation issue? You don't know what you're talking about, frankly. 1h has superior animations, both because they are harder to read and because they hit faster.

German greatsword has 123 reach, not 140. Curved weapons have phantom reach.

And no, you're not a good player if you die to a mediocre 2h, because he has to block manually and due to him being mediocre, he's not very good at that.

[Vicious666]

Lol vicious. Does everyone play with the top reach weapons? Have you actually tried to play with Flamberge? Reach isn't an issue, even WITHOUT a shield. You can block once and then facehug. With a shield, you don't even need to block correctly.

And damage, again, does everyone use a flamberge? No.

Animation issue? You don't know what you're talking about, frankly. 1h has superior animations, both because they are harder to read and because they hit faster.

German greatsword has 123 reach, not 140. Curved weapons have phantom reach.

And no, you're not a good player if you die to a mediocre 2h, because he has to block manually and due to him being mediocre, he's not very good at that.

i not die vs a mediocre spammer,     it takes me anyway more skill than him to kill him, becouse i need to aim perfectly on his dead moments, while he only do click click click click click click.

a mediocr 1hander on other side, have no chance vs a mediocre   2hander cause all this advantage i already mentioned.


and you are wrong about animations. everybody know 2h-pole have better animation than 1h, dont be ridiculous   you have 140 reach with your stupid lolstab and expecial you XANT you abuse it a lot.         at levels that majority of ppl i see approch you wait you on  low guard


another things to add on negative for 1handeR?  upkeep, yes my upkeep on weapon is 60-70% more than your since our top 1h cost 9k, and your top cost 11-12k.   but we have also shield for another 6-10k

[Xant]

i not die vs a mediocre spammer,     it takes me anyway more skill than him to kill him, becouse i need to aim perfectly on his dead moments, while he only do click click click click click click.

a mediocr 1hander on other side, have no chance vs a mediocre   2hander cause all this advantage i already mentioned.


and you are wrong about animations. everybody know 2h-pole have better animation than 1h, dont be ridiculous   you have 140 reach with your stupid lolstab and expecial you XANT you abuse it a lot.         at levels that majority of ppl i see approch you wait you on  low guard

Dunno about you, but on my shielder at level 15 I couldn't get spammed by 2hers. You just need to use footwork to counter spamming and then suddenly, voila, they can't spam anymore.

All the advantages you mentioned but which aren't true.

The only animation that 2h swords have that's superior to 1h is the stab, and even that was nerfed by the devs. You got any proof to show that the 2h stab has 140 reach?

Upkeep doesn't matter, making gold is too easy.

[MrExxc]

Shields:
+ make it easier to defend one's front
+ stop arrows, throwing weapons, and most bolts coming from certain directions
+ a sense of confidence
- require shield skill points
- cost money
- are heavy
- break, making them useful for a limited time in each battle
-- a breaking shield can momentarily stun the one holding it
-- once the shield is broken, the player is most often left with a one-handed weapon - a relative handicap in most hand-to-hand situations
- limit the player to only attacking with one handed weapons, stabbing spears, and throwing weapons
-- one handed weapons are shorter, do less damage, and are often slower than their statistical attack speed because of the shield

They're not overpowered or underpowered.  They're just a reliable choice for any player who wants to invest in their benefits, that's all.  I originally switched to a sword and board because I got sick of Kesh turning me into a pin cushion pre-patch.

+1 Maybe nerf the huscarl a liiiiiiiiiiittle bit, but overal it's one of the most balanced classes. Nerf PA i'd say!!

[Vicious666]

Dunno about you, but on my shielder at level 15 I couldn't get spammed by 2hers. You just need to use footwork to counter spamming and then suddenly, voila, they can't spam anymore.

All the advantages you mentioned but which aren't true.

The only animation that 2h swords have that's superior to 1h is the stab, and even that was nerfed by the devs. You got any proof to show that the 2h stab has 140 reach?

Upkeep doesn't matter, making gold is too easy.

LEVEL 15 AND YOU TALK°?

cmon be realistic
make a 31+ than talk , at lev 15 you have what  9 dex?    12 stR?


and is impossible to outmnanouver a 2hander,  becouse shield make you slower, and he have more reach, i am talking at same level of ability not a retard vs a good player.       

you are faster by default, you have more reach by default, if a 1hander  outmanouver you and exit from your spam, you have to change game.    (and by you i not mean you xant but the 2hander guy in the example)


and yes i proofed the lolstab with a friend on duel server

we have taken a 140 long weapon stepped away at his reach limit
than a german lolstab sword,   who in theory have 125, where able to ding my shield at same distance of the pole 140 reach , so lolstab gain a good +15 cm 

[Xant]

LEVEL 15 AND YOU TALK°?

cmon be realistic
make a 31+ than talk , at lev 15 you have what  9 dex?    12 stR?


and yes i proofed the lolstab with a friend on duel server

we have taken a 140 long weapon stepped away at his reach limit
than a german lolstab sword,   who in theory have 125, where able to ding my shield at same distance of the pole 140 reach , so lolstab gain a good +15 cm

... Dude, that's the whole point. If I can't be spammed even at level 15, how could I be spammed at level 31? 

[Vicious666]

... Dude, that's the whole point. If I can't be spammed even at level 15, how could I be spammed at level 31? 

xant you in my clan

but dont lie, i play 1h since we where  30 in this fucking mod.

and mathematics is not opinion

a 1 hander 18 str 18 agi with 6 athletics and a huscarl      with 81 speed, cant outmanouver and exit from a spam vs a 18 18 lev 31 2 hander with same athletics     and no speed malus.

IS MATHEMATIC.     

if happens is becouse

a ) one of the 2 player is clearly    more skilled
2) a jump or a ground that is not plain that can make someone gain more distance by  climbing or descending .





withouth consider agistackabuser+polearms,       that not only are faster than any 1hander possible+more reach + more dmg, but also STUN


i am pointing here evidence with mathematics and proofed things, not  my personal opinion.  discussion over

[Xant]

xant you in my clan

but dont lie, i play 1h since we where  30 in this fucking mod.

and mathematics is not opinion

a 1 hander 18 str 18 agi with 6 athletics and a huscarl      with 81 speed, cant outmanouver and exit from a spam vs a 18 18 lev 31 2 hander with same athletics     and no speed malus.

IS MATHEMATIC.     

if happens is becouse

a ) one of the 2 player is clearly    more skilled
2) a jump or a ground that is not plain that can make someone gain more distance by  climbing or descending .

Vicious, saying it's mathematic does not prove it. And it's false, doesn't matter how high your opponent's agi is, if you have 18 agi yourself, you can't be spammed.