Stamina Bar Needed

[Noely]

It's just to not let players manual block like 15 hits in a row or swing a polearms 10 times without getting tired.

stoped reading there.

edit:that was page one
edit2:which you can see as its linked...

[IG_Saint]

I'm going to try and prove you wrong with my next build. In my opinion, it's possible to build a char with a long weapon that can spam non-shielders so they can't hit back. And against shielders, you equip a shieldbreaker with this build and need to block maybe 3 times, then their shield is gone and you can continue the spam. I think this is true because I have observed it many times while spectating other players when I was dead.

1. Hollow words. Nerf high speed builds how?
2. It is the best solution, because it would fix the problem and not affect anyone else. Also, as I have already posted in other stamina threads, it would introduce a chance to get rid of the hard requirements on equipment. But this is probably too visionary for you, so I won't elaborate further.
3. Yeah, you constantly repeat that while failing to explain even a single one of those supposedly existing multiple better solutions.
4. This is nothing but your opinion. In my opinion, a system that allows to replace skill with a certain character build is broken and needs to be fixed.

I've dueled high agi polearm spammers both with my 1h (lvl24, 15str/16agi, 108 wpf, military cleaver, heavy board shield, medium armour) and my high level pure 2h. I don't have a problem with beating them. I don't have a problem with attacking after I block either, it's all about positioning and timing. The basic rhythm of I attack, he blocks, he attacks, I block, holds true regardless of builds, only being shifted by positioning, timing and very slow (crushthrough) weapons. Oh and ping, server lag and the occiasonal glitch/bug. Anybody who says otherwise needs to practice more.

1. Make the bonuses from agi scale instead of being lineair.
2. A stamina system would affect everyone and being a completely new idea could create countless other problems. Sorry, I don't feel like waiting 4 months before the stamina system is finally balanced, not when we have a perfectly good system. And I highly disagree with the "best solution". There are easier and beter ways of doing it.
3. Nerf high agi, nerf high wpf, change the wpf scaling of polearm weapons (the main offenders), etc etc. I'm not going to bother explaining them all, why the hell should I, I'm not a balancer, I'll leave that up to urist and whoever else does it.
4. Bullshit, the system is fine. Multiple people have attested to this and I know from personal experience. The problem is and has always been player skill. When you make that build you mentioned, send me a pm and I'll come and hand your ass to you on the duel server. Oh and your opinion is just as worthless as mine. Don't complain about me stating my opinion and then do it yourself.

Now lets turn this around.
Arguments for a stamina system:
-realism.
-counter spam.
-take away requirements on weapons to allow wider use.

-Realism. Is and always has been a stupid reason. Realism is the last of a long list of criteria that a proposed change needs to adhear to. Thing like: is it needed, is it practical, would it solve the problem etc. Then there's the question of whether or not a professional soldier, hyped on adrenaline would even feel fatigue after a mere 5 minutes of fighting.
-counter spam. Is a player problem, not a system problem. Don't change the system to deal with something that has nothing to do with the system.
-take away requirements on weapons to allow wider use. This could be interesting, not sure if it's needed, and again could be done without changing the system. For instance having a soft requirement, if you're under that you get a penalty to wpf.

[jspook]

1. Make the bonuses from agi scale instead of being linear.
2. A stamina system would affect everyone and being a completely new idea could create countless other problems. Sorry, I don't feel like waiting 4 months before the stamina system is finally balanced, not when we have a perfectly good system. And I highly disagree with the "best solution". There are easier and beter ways of doing it.
3. Nerf high agi, nerf high wpf, change the wpf scaling of polearm weapons (the main offenders), etc etc. I'm not going to bother explaining them all, why the hell should I, I'm not a balancer, I'll leave that up to urist and whoever else does it.

Good stuff!  strength has already been nerfed, this would help bring the agi more in line.  scaling the agi in its effects like the wpf scales for point cost is perfect.  You are still going to have high agi builds, but the rewards would be incrementally smaller.
the one drawback to this result would be seeing a lot more players dedicate their points to str once they hit the agi glass ceiling instead.  that means more high agi high hitpoint mofo's, making the spammers harder to kill.  hah.  thats irony.

[bruce]

-Realism. Is and always has been a stupid reason. Realism is the last of a long list of criteria that a proposed change needs to adhear to. Thing like: is it needed, is it practical, would it solve the problem etc. Then there's the question of whether or not a professional soldier, hyped on adrenaline would even feel fatigue after a mere 5 minutes of fighting.

Not to mention what is traditionally called spam is typically merely a few swings, and not 5 minutes of swinging your weapon. Probably less then a minute. Most fights are over in just a few swings. To begin swinging noticeably slower after a few swings would be unrealistic.

-counter spam. Is a player problem, not a system problem. Don't change the system to deal with something that has nothing to do with the system.

Agreed.

-take away requirements on weapons to allow wider use. This could be interesting, not sure if it's needed, and again could be done without changing the system. For instance having a soft requirement, if you're under that you get a penalty to wpf.

Tbh, I think requirements on some weapons, particularly long ones, should be raised. It makes sense, and balances out str vs agi a bit better.

[Wallace]

Oh yeah I forgot about this idea...

Instead of a stamina bar that nerfs everyone across the board, why not make weapon str requirements higher.

The Crushthrough heavy ass weapons would be in the 25-36 range

1h would be super light and that would be what the agi stackers could use

everything else would fall to the inbetween builds

[1slander]

Blah Blah Blah STamina bar needed - hands down.  I think we proved that.

Base it off 2/3 STR and 1/3 AGI and we have ourselves a gamebreaker.  Make it happen.

[bruce]

I think we proved that.

I think we firmly disputed that we need one.

[1slander]

Think they'll even implement it?  It's probably a big deal really.  Maybe they don't know how?  Cause if they did I'd imagine it would be there.

[ArchonAlarion]

The stamina bar is a fine idea.

The problem  is not the shittyness of the stamina bar, but the shittyness of a multitude of other parts of the game, such that sticking a stamina bar in would require vast alterations. Is it possible? Yes.

I hate the weapon speeds in this game, and I also hate the seemingly random applications of knockdown and crushthrough to some weapons, but not to others. I have suggested that all weapons have crushthrough and knockdown with the probability of success being based on weight and str of attacking and defending weapons. Obviously most weapons would have miniscule chances of success, whilst others in the right circumstances would have high chances (Great long bardiche against club). A stamina bar, affected especially by weapon weight, is yet another way to make it work and be "balanced," whatever that even means.

[Joxer]

The reason it will never be implemented is the balance. It would take quite alot of tweaking to get it right. When it would first be added it would be impalanced and the crying on the forums would be mental. Even some people who support the idea would turn against it.

[jspook]

...., and I also hate the seemingly random applications of knockdown and crushthrough to some weapons, but not to others. I have suggested that all weapons have crushthrough and knockdown with the probability of success being based on weight and str of attacking and defending weapons. Obviously most weapons would have miniscule chances of success, ......

Thats not actually far off of reality.  In most cases, the 2H weapons in this game werent used for cut dmg at all in RL.  The Flamberge, in particular and the claymores werent even kept sharp.  those swords were designed to crush shield formations and men in armor using the sheer length and fulcrum effect that the sword provided.  Others, like the Nodachi were intended as anti-calvary/spear weapons.

but from a game standpoint, I think the suggestion is silly.  Crushthrough is a big problem in most cases (notably the bar mace.... which is really fun to use, but not to get beat down with) and takes a few of the classes right out of the game in terms of balance.  A stamina bar wouldnt actually address ANY of the current problems with balance, it would only add a completely new layer of complexity allowing an even further group of elite weapons to stand out from the rest.
Right now the game is pretty diverse.  Adding more strictures would effectively streamline the way players build towards the end game.

[Formless]

+1 for Stamina Bar

It would actually force people to think during game play.

[Boss_Awesome]

Why are people still complaining about spammers and asking for stamina bar?  That's SO 2010...  I've played a 24 agi katana spammer and good people can still get hits in with foot work and timing.  Bad people die.   Spamming is useful for clearing out all the crappy fighters so you can have a good duel with a good fighter.  The good fighters who can counter spamming aren't just agi heavy players.  A lot is in the footwork.  Please don't add a stamina or mana bar, and no magic spells or kill 10 Goretooth quests.

[Formless]

I don't want a stamina bar for spammers, I want a stamina bar because it would make the game more interesting. 

[ArchonAlarion]

@Formless: I think many individuals have trouble understanding that people may make suggestions for a reason other than their personal difficulties in game. A stamina bar would  be great, and it's definitely possible. There are enjoyable games that are more complex than mount and blade, it just comes down to intuitiveness and realism for any additional mechanics to work.