Smithing Skill - discussion

[chadz]

So, we are currently thinking about changing the smithing skill, especially how one gets it. What I like about the smithing skill: It gives clans the ability to produce their preferred items cheaper, as well as their heirlooms.

Anyway, I'm not going into detail what our ideas are or how it works currently, but instead:

What is, in your opinion, a gameplay enhancing way to distribute smithing skills?

[Rubicon]

IMO, everything that can removed random event ( "hard work" text" ) by human choices would be a great improvement for production and trading.

[Slamz]

When calculating repairs, there will also be a calculation for "All Thine Hard Work".

If it succeeds, you get +1 smithing points for those items.  Alts can also earn these points and they go to your main for use in Strategus.

In Strategus, you can spend these points by crafting.  1 point yields 10 items at 50% of the normal price.


So if I get "All Thine Hard Work" 10 times while wielding a Nordic Champion Sword, then I can spend 10 hours crafting 100 Nordic Champion Swords at half cost.  If my archer alt got that message 2 times while using Bodkin Arrows, then I can spend 2 hours crafting 20 quivers of bodkin arrows at half cost.


You can twiddle the "All Thine Hard Work" chances to your liking.  I'm not sure what it should be.  Could be based on your multiplier, too, similar to gold:
x1 - x2 = no chance
x3 = 1% chance per round
x4-x5 = 2% chance per round

If that's not enough then up it.  It could even be semi-random:
x1  = nothing
x2 = 50% chance of +0.05 smithing points
x3 = +0.05 smithing points and a 50% chance of another +0.05 smithing points
x4-x5 = +0.1 smithing points and a 50% chance of another +0.05 smithing points.

When you have a whole point, it gets credited to you and you get the "All thine hard work" message.

(I wouldn't make it completely non-random or else people will break out the pencil and paper, predict their next point and put on all their platemail.  But semi-random could help prevent prevent people from going 162 rounds with no smithing points just because they never ever get a good dice roll.)

[Slamz]

Another option, requiring far more work:

Forget about the entire current system.  Instead, there will be a "real" crafting system.

You want to make a Claymore.  This requires:
5 iron
2 coal
1 wood
1 leather
10 gold (forge rental fees)

Different fiefs produce different things.  In order to make that Claymore, you must obtain those items from across the map, either directly or through trade with other players (here's 200 iron, I'd like 500 wood, thank you, good day).

Every item has a recipe and god bless to devs who have to type all that in.  "All Thine Hard Work" might still exist to give you access to heirloom recipes.  Only people who have earned "all thine hard work" while wearing Lordly Scale Gauntlets can make those, but anyone can make regular Scale Gauntlets.


Ideally we'd also need a player auction house for this, similar to EVE or POTBS.  e.g., I go to Sargoth and put my wood up on the market for 1 gold each.  Someone buys it and I take my gold and buy the iron someone has up for 2 gold each.  etc.  Player driven economy!



Well you didn't say you only wanted easy ideas!

[IR_Kuoin]

Thine hard work only have something to say for Strat. right? Cuz I've gotten that text allot...

[22nd_King_Plazek]

What about an actual smithing skill?
You know that you put points into with your crpg character. The higher the skill level the higher value good you can produce.

So that it is not totally useless when playing make it so that in crpg it reduces repair costs.
---

Maybe some sort of forge building in fiefs that has X slots per upgrade level and you can make anything that the fief owner selects as produce-able. It could even have a buyback system like how you can produce goods in a village and sell them back where the fief owner can set the price and thus the income of forge workers.

Then if a fief owner wants 100000 straw hats he can set straw hats as a produce-able item in his fief, set the buyback price to be higher than other goods that can be made in his fief and advertise that there are many many "straw-smith" jobs in his fief.

For heirlooms (and all goods at that) maybe make it so a fief owner can only select goods to produce in his fief that he owns in his crpg inventory. So to be able to produce an heirloomed armour piece he must actually own one. If that is too easy make it so you have to pay a fee of gold scaling with item quality to add any item to your forgeworks.

---

You know as soon as I heard of strategus I had always hoped there would be some non-combat skills to mix things up a bit (preferably with some sort of crpg function as well). Like smiths, doctors, leadership skills etc. There is an obvious space for them to fit in in a way very similarly to m&b single player. So why not?

[IR_Kuoin]

Then if a fief owner wants 100000 straw hats he can set straw hats as a produce-able item in his fief, set the buyback price to be higher than other goods that can be made in his fief and advertise that there are many many "straw-smith" jobs in his fief.

Who the hell wants 100000 straw hats?

Trolololool

[Bjord]

Slamz made some really sensible suggestions. Both of those are actually very good, I hope you listen to him.

[IR_Kuoin]

Slamz made some really sensible suggestions. Both of those are actually very good, I hope you listen to him.

Wow Bjord is unmuted

[SPQR]

Unlink smithing from crpg entirely.

Smithing is a strategus-only skill so tying it to crpg is really unnecessary.

Instead, start everyone at a base chance to produce every item, like 5%. Then, every time they successfully create an item, their skill in producing that item has a chance of going up. So, in the beginning for example your skill at making Leather Gloves will be poor, but the more Leather Gloves you produce, the more efficient you will become at it, getting a production discount and being able to make more each batch. So people can choose to specialize and have a few items they can produce cheaply and in bulk, or have a wider selection of items they're not as good at producing.

Perhaps allow people to choose a "specialization" like shields, or bows, that they get bonus smithing skill in. So one clan member can be the go-to for making bows, while another may specialize in armor, ect.

--

The other option, which is far more comprehensive, is to basically implement Charisma-like skills from native into strategus.

Skills like Leadership, Smithing, and Pathfinding make no sense in cRPG, so its obvious why they don't exist there. But strategus is essentially the singleplayer map made multiplayer so I think it would be very possible to find a way to make those skills fit there.

The greatest thing about cRPG is the amount of customization you find. You build your character EXACTLY how you want them. You pick how they look, how they fight, what they wear, how hard they hit. On the strategus map though, everyone is exactly the same. Everyone moves the same speed, pays the same upkeep, looks the same, ect.

One way to make strategus more engaging is to let people level up their strategus character just like their cRPG character.

Create a new strategus specific value you gain. Call it Valor (or something).

Your character gains valor by doing stuff in strategus. Crafting items gains you valor, participating in strategus battles gets you valor, having your personal forces involved in a battle should generate a bunch of valor, ect.

When you get enough valor, you are allowed to "level up" one of your charisma skills. Here are some potential examples:
-Smithing: Increases your chances and discount for crafting items
-Trade: Increases your trade good gathering rate, additional distance bonuses
-Leadership: Reduces upkeep cost for troops
-Pathfinding: Increases map movement speed
-Survival: Increase view distance, reduces terrain speed penalties, makes character party harder to spot on map
-Loot: Increases ability to view items of nearby characters on map, increases looting rate for battles and raids

Ect ect.

This way each person can customize their strategus character. Someone who wants to lead around armies may want to level Leadership and Pathfinding exclusively. Someone more interested in crafting may max out smithing and make world-class gear. Someone else may want to lead caravans and go for Trade and Pathfinding.

A bandit character could take Loot, and Survival and ambush passing caravans.

Anyway, you get the idea. Basically the goal is to get people as excited about their character in strategus as they are about their crpg abilities. Being able to level up and customize their strategus character I think will get many people to finally invest in strat as a full-fledged partner to cRPG instead of a side-distraction.

[Digglez]

I want a crafting system identical to Pirates of the Burning Sea.  Its free to play, so go do your research!

Each village has static resources that are used to make raw mats. (hemp, iron ore, oak logging camp)
Raw mats are turned into manufactured goods (hemp rope, iron ingots, oak planks)
Manufactured goods are combined to make final products (catapult)

There are also a decent number of economic structures that can be placed at most any location: pastures for livestock, small plantations, etc)

Players are limited to 10 economic structures, so you must balance what you want to accomplish. 
Do you want to just harvest raw mats to give to clanmates to process?
Do you want to buy raw mats from other players to craft manufactured goods & final products?
Do you want to strike a balance?

Nearly all final products require more goods than are available at any one town...so trading with other players are clanmates working together is essential


For instance if it were in cRPG

Fenada village is on Northern coast
Resources:  Northern Cod, Pine Forest, Fertile soil, Wild Game

To get resources from Fenada you would need to build a Fishing Lodge, Lumber Camp to harvest pine wood, small farm to grow wheat, hunting lodge to hunt game (leather, meat, etc)

Player Bob chooses to construct a small farm to raise chickens and a logging camp to harvest wood.  He then creates a slaughter house to get feathers from his chickens and a lumber mill to process his wood.  He also creates a fletcher to use the wood & feathers to make arrows.  But Bob is missing flint, so he has to buy that from Larry.  He could also buy iron ingots from Steve to make bodkin arrows.

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[Jacko]

Will there be Katanas?

[Keshian]

I like leet's first idea.  The more you craft the better you get, up to a maximum of 75% efficiency. 


If you have to have a cRPG way of deciding it thengive it out every time you win 7 rounds in a row on battle or siege.  Or have it based on how many rounds you use the same equipment slowly but surely increases your percentage chance of improving your smithing skill (i.e. .05% for everyone at round 1, .1% for 2 consecutive rounds using same equipment, etc.)

Also, so the list of possible crafted items doesnt get too large, only have strategus show the items you can smith with the top 5 percentages at any given time.

EDIT:  There should be a half price discount allowing you to craft non-loomed items as right now same price as MWed so why not craft those.

[Greziz]

I can't even vaguely figure out how to earn the current hard work stuff and I can craft god knows how many items cause I can't bring myself to use just the same shit forever and ever every round I have several outfits I like to wear and I hop around to them based on the game for instance if it is raining which 90 percent of the god damn time it is I don't bring a crossbow as it become useless in the rain 30 percent dmg reduction!!!!! and it become inaccurate and the bolts fly slow and it is more likely to make me rage WHY GOD DO YOU HAVE RAIN loss of athletics loss of ranged damage and loss of riding skill I guess you hate every class except for strength based 2handers and polearms? any who ignoring that I would love to see the way to earn smithing just be something some one can reasonably set themselves to doing and improving upon in a way that is meaningful and feels productive random ass luck on whatever the hell your using on round so and so while you were drunk and getting hard work payeth off when you have dropped you crossbow took off your helmet for coolness and are currently weilding something you picked off the floor to fend off horses sucks. This stat should be something you can make PROGRESS AT and KNOW that your making progress.


{Skip the rant read this.}

Make it like every level you get a seperate skill point esque thing that lets you put points into what you want to craft for instance when you retire you get a heirloom and 10 craft points to invest how you wish.

[Konrax]

Dear chadz,

The message should be a cumulative non random event based on the gear you are currently wearing, changing said gear at all during the xp building process results in a penalty (not a full wipe but lose a bit of xp each time you change an item) once the bar is full you get a "Hard WorK" message.

The bonus applies to what ever you are wearing at the time you get it.

Lastly I like the idea in the above post, but however I think it should be based on what you actually start to craft, you become more proficient over time crafting it up to a limit.

Limit = 50% (Craft Bonus) + 50% (Hard Work Bonus)

Put a little XP bar right in the equipment page next to where your gear selection is.

Base the XP on number of victories (150 map rounds won) and each time you change your gear you lose 2 points. That way if you change an item you should commit to it at least for 3 rounds to gain a bonus. (Since siege is longer you may want to make it worth more points on average.)

BONUS - Maybe raise the cap and award a small bonus for losses and a greater bonus for victories just so you gain something towards it every round.