Poll

Is archery fine as it is ?

Yeah, everything is fine.
39 (23.1%)
No, something needs to be changed. There is too many archers using bodkins.
40 (23.7%)
No, something needs to be changed. All archers are OP.
13 (7.7%)
No, something needs to be changed. Archers hit like a truck. QQ
28 (16.6%)
Yeah, everything is fine but longbow needs some love.
32 (18.9%)
Ihatearchers.rage.qq.com
17 (10.1%)

Total Members Voted: 169

Author Topic: Plz Stop this pewpew madness without overnerfing it.  (Read 16373 times)

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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: Plz Stop this pewpew madness without overnerfing it.
« Reply #150 on: November 25, 2011, 04:10:54 am »
+1
Have you bothered playing native? People die in droves from the crossbow and archer spam there. cRPG gives melee much more of a fighting chance.

For someone who is so terribly jaded about this mod, you sure do hang around these boards a lot. Go find another mod or game.
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Offline Gorath

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Re: Plz Stop this pewpew madness without overnerfing it.
« Reply #151 on: November 25, 2011, 04:14:49 am »
0
Have you bothered playing native? People die in droves from the crossbow and archer spam there. cRPG gives melee much more of a fighting chance.

For someone who is so terribly jaded about this mod, you sure do hang around these boards a lot. Go find another mod or game.

This is by far the most obvious place on the internet to trololo and talk shit.  Other than SA, where else are you going to find such a collective community of fuckwads?
And I should be nice or polite to anyone.... why exactly?

Offline Christo

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Re: Plz Stop this pewpew madness without overnerfing it.
« Reply #152 on: November 25, 2011, 04:29:10 am »
0
Other than SA, where else are you going to find such a collective community of fuckwads?

Any imageboard.

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Offline duurrr

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Re: Plz Stop this pewpew madness without overnerfing it.
« Reply #153 on: November 25, 2011, 04:35:16 am »
0
as much as i hate crpg's archer i tried native recently...

seriously why the fuck does anyone play native? its just 10 archers and 1 shielder vs 10 crossbowmens and 1 shielder. crpg is heading towards this slowly tho but on a bigger scale, idk, are you guys making armor crutching unbalanced as shit and then trying to balance it off by buffing range? =/

Offline Kophka

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Re: Plz Stop this pewpew madness without overnerfing it.
« Reply #154 on: November 25, 2011, 05:34:47 am »
+4
Personally, I love having archers on my team. Archers definitely should have a place on a medieval battlefield, which is what Mount and Blade is trying to recreate. Kicking ranged out of the game would take this from a medieval fantasy battlefield recreator to a ballet game with swords. Shields would be the next thing to die, then we'd have everyone twirling polearms and 2 hander light-sabers while they danced around like crazy.


However, I don't like that every bow can have pierce, from the fastest firing bow to the hardest hitting bow. I thought it was pretty well balanced that a lot of the archers had cut bows, and had to choose their targets based on what they were effective against. The people that chose bows with a good chance against armor had to take longer draw time and slower firing as a penalty for it.

What exactly was wrong with that system, that it had to be changed? What will it take to bring it back?

Offline Zanze

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Re: Plz Stop this pewpew madness without overnerfing it.
« Reply #155 on: November 25, 2011, 07:22:44 am »
0
You want to counter range? Pick up some throwing weapons.

Chestacleese(sp?) in specific hates my guts in battle and I really can't do anything about it. He is just as accurate, if not more accurate than I am. He also can probably throw two war darts for every arrow I shoot from my horn bow. The only thing I have on him is the ability to shoot from further.

Offline BADPLAYERold

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Re: Plz Stop this pewpew madness without overnerfing it.
« Reply #156 on: November 25, 2011, 07:31:42 am »
+1
You want to counter range? Pick up some throwing weapons.

Chestacleese(sp?) in specific hates my guts in battle and I really can't do anything about it. He is just as accurate, if not more accurate than I am. He also can probably throw two war darts for every arrow I shoot from my horn bow. The only thing I have on him is the ability to shoot from further.

AKA - Want to counter ranged? BE RANGED!

Offline Duke

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Re: Plz Stop this pewpew madness without overnerfing it.
« Reply #157 on: November 25, 2011, 07:44:56 am »
0
You want to counter range? Pick up some throwing weapons.

Chestacleese(sp?) in specific hates my guts in battle and I really can't do anything about it. He is just as accurate, if not more accurate than I am. He also can probably throw two war darts for every arrow I shoot from my horn bow. The only thing I have on him is the ability to shoot from further.
AKA - Want to counter ranged? BE RANGED!

I wouldn't classify Throwers as 100% range, they're usually an Infantry/Ranged hybrid.
100% Thrower builds are not necessary to counter archers, especially when they wear light armor.

Offline Dezilagel

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Re: Plz Stop this pewpew madness without overnerfing it.
« Reply #158 on: November 25, 2011, 07:57:59 am »
0
AKA - Want to counter ranged? BE RANGED!


I wouldn't classify Throwers as 100% range, they're usually an Infantry/Ranged hybrid.
100% Thrower builds are not necessary to counter archers, especially when they wear light armor.

Throwers throw stuff,

therefore rangedmy old friends.

Sure you can be more or less my old friendgy (runners...), but it still stands that the most effective way of dealing with archers is to bring a ranged weapon yourself.

(Ranged to counter ranged,

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Offline Kay of Sauvage

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Re: Plz Stop this pewpew madness without overnerfing it.
« Reply #159 on: November 25, 2011, 09:57:22 am »
+2
Despite Sir_Agor and Tears' terrible arguments, ranged still is way too powerful and it's making the game all about how to figure out a way to not get slaughtered by archers. The main strategy involves hoping the auto-balance gives you more archers than the other team. Not fun.

I've offered a few very conservative suggestions on how to try to reel in archers to being balanced again without even touching their shot power.

1) Change the map rotation. It's full of villages on mountains, and mountains overlooking villages, and natural archer nests on the roofs of mountain villages. Notice a theme? Besides being boring, all these maps make everyone move in slow motion, which is very convenient for someone shooting arrows from their elevated perch. Even Battlefield 3 isn't as convenient for snipers as M&B is for archers... So add some tight city maps that offer no safe perches to sit in and snipe from, and makes it difficult to fire into flanks. Add some flat or rolling plains, without any perches that defeat the purpose. Obstacles, buildings, fences, and other things are fine. Just keep it on the ground. Archers will still be OP on other maps, but maybe it'll make some people think twice about their choice of builds.

2) Don't allow archers to draw the bow while moving. Require that they stand still to do the whole draw and shoot motion. (And you guys who like to bring up realism, when do you ever see archers running and drawing a bow at the same time? Even Legolas stands in place to draw and shoot.) Nothing good comes from allowing this movement. It gives kiting archers more opportunity to shoot at the infantry that chase them. It makes them able to strafe-dodge cavalry that attack them while still spamming shots off point blank into the horse (cavalry should at least be able to force a single archer into putting away his bow to fight). The idea here is to at least discourage archers from playing Rambo, going wherever they want, on the flanks without support, since they may now be harassed more effectively by cav and chasing infantry.

Plus this would finally give xbows something that bows wouldn't have, the ability to move and shoot.

3) Remove ladders. Nothing good comes from ladders. It just adds a perch to every map that doesn't already have a perch, except this one has the added benefit that it will be totally unreachable when the ladder is destroyed.


4)I think the idea to add weight to the bows is a good idea also. Yes, Rumblood, I would much rather see you add more power to your shots than to be able to run fast. I play with 7 athletics myself and can rarely keep up with any archer. If it's 2 archers, forget it, I'm dead already.

It's much more important to make archers counter-able than it is to make them less deadly. At least if they can be successfully caught (when they don't bother to stick with allies for protection), they will be forced to change tactics and be more bearable.  If a shielder sees an archer off to the side alone, it should really mean that the archer will be caught unless he drops his archery equipment. As it is now, a shielder sees an archer off to the side and says, "dammit, I wish I could do something about that."




Also, someone mentioned that archers need to be a support class in order to be balanced. I think that's true. There's no reason that every class should be represented equally on the scoreboard. Archery is a middle-of-the-road class. The worst archer will be better than the worst infantry because they can just fire from a distance, often into a defenseless target, without the same risk . Likewise, the best archer shouldn't be better than the best infantry, because the archer has a limited rate of fire, limited accuracy (though I wonder about that...), limited damage output, while the infantry should be able to cleave through groups of enemies faster and with more power. Plus the weaker arrow hit should often help stun a target enough to allow an ally's strong melee attack to kill them.

Proper balance should be about what classes cause the game to be won or lost because of lack of a reasonable counter. Right now, archers are deciding the game.

Offline Vibe

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Re: Plz Stop this pewpew madness without overnerfing it.
« Reply #160 on: November 25, 2011, 09:59:17 am »
0
3) Remove ladders.

Yes to this, but...

2) Don't allow archers to draw the bow while moving.

... one big lol to this.

Offline Kay of Sauvage

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Re: Plz Stop this pewpew madness without overnerfing it.
« Reply #161 on: November 25, 2011, 10:16:23 am »
0
... one big lol to this.

Why?

Certainly they don't need to be shooting while kiting. Nor do they need to be pelting a horse at point blank range as they sidestep. They should be using the support of allies to allow them them to stand somewhere safely if they want to be able to shoot constantly. No Rambos.

It'd be an interesting change in terms of how archers deal with each other, since they can't just keep dancing side to side while drawing the bow. We might actually see an archer run for cover instead of just dancing in place, heaven forbid.

Offline Vibe

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Re: Plz Stop this pewpew madness without overnerfing it.
« Reply #162 on: November 25, 2011, 10:50:28 am »
0
Why?

Certainly they don't need to be shooting while kiting. Nor do they need to be pelting a horse at point blank range as they sidestep. They should be using the support of allies to allow them them to stand somewhere safely if they want to be able to shoot constantly. No Rambos.

It'd be an interesting change in terms of how archers deal with each other, since they can't just keep dancing side to side while drawing the bow. We might actually see an archer run for cover instead of just dancing in place, heaven forbid.

Because it's already implemented lol?

Offline rustyspoon

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Re: Plz Stop this pewpew madness without overnerfing it.
« Reply #163 on: November 25, 2011, 01:50:38 pm »
+3
Please just give back shields their ranged forcefield. At the very least we'd be able to cover ourselves and our teammates again. It's not like we'd be able to catch the fucking archers anyway.
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Offline Arrowblood

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Re: Plz Stop this pewpew madness without overnerfing it.
« Reply #164 on: November 25, 2011, 04:26:04 pm »
0
Fact is, you all will cry about archers in 1 year too     cos you cant deal with our unfair world,    u just dont accept that you get killed from range. Everyone who wears something with a CHAI
N MAIL and cries about op BODKINS+LONGBOW  is a noob in my opinion. I agree with the roofmonkeycampingdelayingshit. 
« Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 04:59:21 pm by Deutschritter »