Constructive criticism about high agility builds

[Michael]

I agree with above post.And proud of it.

Yeah, armor, katana, nodachi and other stuff real ninjas never used (simply because they hadnt the money for such expensive gear).


Also, if you dont get kills by backstabbing (what is in my opinion somehow Ninja-like and therefore theme based, but, you see, you need no combat skill for it, even I can do that), your members, all agi-whores, using fastest 2h in game and left-right-left-swing-spam your opponents without blocking once. Most of your members, if not all, parry the first strike, or not even that, and then spam-spam-spam.

Also, its common knowledge that in crpg nowadays in 1 vs 1 the gear your members use gives you a huge advantage, especially because your peasant cutter in game is one of the deadliest weapon with only a few points in power strike you can do insane damage to plate what in real life would simply bounce off.


For every situation there is the right weapon, so is it against every enemy. Of course you cry about ranged and mounted troops, because you cant kill them as easily as plated turtlers.


There is no difference between Ninjas and Shogunate who use European swords and axes, its the same kill hungry playstyle, get as much kills as possible as easy as possible.

There is nothing wrong with that attitude. Indeed, its the goal of this plain game to do what you can to make your team win.

[Babelfish]

Yeah, armor, katana, nodachi and other stuff real ninjas never used (simply because they hadnt the money for such expensive gear).


Also, if you dont get kills by backstabbing (what is in my opinion somehow Ninja-like and therefore theme based, but, you see, you need no combat skill for it, even I can do that), your members, all agi-whores, using fastest 2h in game and left-right-left-swing-spam your opponents without blocking once. Most of your members, if not all, parry the first strike, or not even that, and then spam-spam-spam.

Also, its common knowledge that in crpg nowadays in 1 vs 1 the gear your members use gives you a huge advantage, especially because your peasant cutter in game is one of the deadliest weapon with only a few points in power strike you can do insane damage to plate what in real life would simply bounce off.


For every situation there is the right weapon, so is it against every enemy. Of course you cry about ranged and mounted troops, because you cant kill them as easily as plated turtlers.


There is no difference between Ninjas and Shogunate who use European swords and axes, its the same kill hungry playstyle, get as much kills as possible as easy as possible.

There is nothing wrong with that attitude. Indeed, its the goal of this plain game to do what you can to make your team win.

Sure 

Just curious, but have you seen the range and thrust damage on the katana? The bastard sword is superior to the katana, just saying.

[Ninja_Khorin]

Michael. Everything in your post is debatable and this is not the thread to debate them. Except one thing, ninjas don't use shields. That's a significant disadvantage.
And I only complain about HA. If I die from the rest it's my own fault. HA's are just untouchable by me :/

[BlackGyver]

Yeah, armor, katana, nodachi and other stuff real ninjas never used (simply because they hadnt the money for such expensive gear).

Who cares ? We're not debating the historical resemblance here. Us Ninjas or Ninja-followers use a few weapons, a light armor, and try to actually raise our overall skills; manual blocking, feinting, awareness, battlefield knowledge.

Also, if you dont get kills by backstabbing (what is in my opinion somehow Ninja-like and therefore theme based, but, you see, you need no combat skill for it, even I can do that), your members, all agi-whores, using fastest 2h in game and left-right-left-swing-spam your opponents without blocking once. Most of your members, if not all, parry the first strike, or not even that, and then spam-spam-spam.

No, you won't simply be able to do that as efficiently as a high level Ninja will. Players need to be aware of their surroundings. Ninjas use the fact most of the turtles/spambergers/spamchers will just rely on what they see in front of them, and use this to their advantage.

Regarding spam; some of the ninjas, or fake-ninjas can be actual agi whores and furious spammers (Ninja_SilentX comes in mind). But all the others, (80%+) of the Ninjas are real skilled players, or try to be.

Also, its common knowledge that in crpg nowadays in 1 vs 1 the gear your members use gives you a huge advantage, especially because your peasant cutter in game is one of the deadliest weapon with only a few points in power strike you can do insane damage to plate what in real life would simply bounce off.

I laugh at you. Really. A tincan on a plated charger crying about how light armor is op ? Please, cry some more. And no, katana is fast (and will be nerfed a bit), but that doesn't really make for the lack of overall power.

For every situation there is the right weapon, so is it against every enemy. Of course you cry about ranged and mounted troops, because you cant kill them as easily as plated turtlers.

Ninjas chose their path. We don't cry about archers or cav. I eat cav on breakfast. And occasionnally archers. We're just stating a fact; archer is now the laziest way to earn some cheap kills. And having a milanese/black armor is what "skills" mean now. Which is really saddening.

There is no difference between Ninjas and Shogunate who use European swords and axes, its the same kill hungry playstyle, get as much kills as possible as easy as possible.

False, just watch Thomek or Danish_General in a tincan melee, it's really impressive.

Anyway, I completely agree with Babelfish. Hoping the upcoming patch will fix some of this.

[Thomek]

Yeah, armor, katana, nodachi and other stuff real ninjas never used (simply because they hadnt the money for such expensive gear).

Also, if you dont get kills by backstabbing (what is in my opinion somehow Ninja-like and therefore theme based, but, you see, you need no combat skill for it, even I can do that), your members, all agi-whores, using fastest 2h in game and left-right-left-swing-spam your opponents without blocking once. Most of your members, if not all, parry the first strike, or not even that, and then spam-spam-spam.

Also, its common knowledge that in crpg nowadays in 1 vs 1 the gear your members use gives you a huge advantage, especially because your peasant cutter in game is one of the deadliest weapon with only a few points in power strike you can do insane damage to plate what in real life would simply bounce off.

For every situation there is the right weapon, so is it against every enemy. Of course you cry about ranged and mounted troops, because you cant kill them as easily as plated turtlers.


There is no difference between Ninjas and Shogunate who use European swords and axes, its the same kill hungry playstyle, get as much kills as possible as easy as possible.

There is nothing wrong with that attitude. Indeed, its the goal of this plain game to do what you can to make your team win.

Finished/"Michael" Nooby nooby knight.. I know you are trolling us. But I can't not answer your post.

1. Have I EVER EVER EVER, said that Ninja_ have ANYTHING to do with "Historical Ninjas"? We are 80's vhs movies ffs! (And you know it perfectly well)
2. Yes, trying to not get noticed (Backstabbing) is a valid tactic and way underused on the battlefield. It's called playing smart..
3. Yes we are AGI-whores, but 10 athletics is my armor. :-) Even the mighty Nebun can't hit me regularily when I'm dodging..
4. And yes it is a moderately to highly efficient playstyle in terms of kills and general fame. (not K:D ratio though..) :-)

I'm not even gonna talk about your fun-destroying playstyle.. Keeping your shield up and bumping people to death. You have played this game as long and as much as I have and you still don't have ANY skills? If you have a physical disability at least be open about it before people start to speculate.
Still remember when you were a member of Ninja_ , the only one that ever demanded to wear our black hood without posting a screen with kills and going to duel..

I made the Ninja's to be on the forefront of FUN playstyles, to see if it was possible to deal with crpg without all the armor and gear. To literally cut down the number of archers :-) (Back when there were a 60 man server, I was hoping to ruin their fun by constant backstabbing!)

Anyway.. I take this way too serious and might be going mental here.. :-D

Ahem.. yes. Battle-mode has devolved into a nasty place with little to no room for Low_Fi characters/guilds.

And I think Mala is the only player I really respect nowadays. A shining star in a sea of min-maxing :-)

[Farrok]

Also, if you dont get kills by backstabbing (what is in my opinion somehow Ninja-like and therefore theme based, but, you see, you need no combat skill for it, even I can do that), your members, all agi-whores, using fastest 2h in game and left-right-left-swing-spam your opponents without blocking once. Most of your members, if not all, parry the first strike, or not even that, and then spam-spam-spam.

have you ever duel a ninja? the clan have many good players.. they dont need to block much with spam katana on battlefield but they can block and have playerskill...
its same as many Guards, spam spam spam but only because its enough for the most noob 2h spammer who cant even block one hit...when they fight a skilled player you will see that many of the spammers are good at blocking.

hell nowadays we have so much noobspammer son the battlefield, even me with 1 wpf can kill two at the same time but on the other hand i die from an skilled player with melee wpf pretty fast most of the time XD



after patch i hope we will have siege, battle on the same amount maybe some other gametypes too(tdm, ctf)

i like siege more because i dont want to wait 5 minutes after i die...im an always hated light armored khergitstyle HA so i die even before the round starts xD though in siege i dont use a horse so all the HA thingys are useless ;)

[Michael]

A tincan on a plated charger crying about how light armor is op ?

I wasnt crying.
I was trying and obviously failing to explain thats not a big thing when a "Ninja" "owns" (outspams in other words) a "tincan". He has all advantages on his side (ignore ping, computer for now).

What I was "crying", complaining as better word I would prefer, were e-peen comments like the Ninjas as the only true class with skill that seek a challenge while all others go easy-mode to kill the Ninjas fun.

And thats just elephant shit. Of course its annoying, when I ride down Thomek, so that some teammate can kill him. Its my job to be annoying when I am on the enemy team.

On skill, I was refusing to "earn" my blackhood because I was wearing it weeks before you came up with this new rule. So what would be my motivation to earn something I already had for a long time? Screenshots, I have plenty where I was wearing no armor (only this padded jack or whats is called), using only longsword (hadnt the money for something better that time) and was on top with 10 - 0 k - d r.

Refusing duelling you? lol
With my yarons_bodyguard, even with my crap internet and computer I owned your higher level char in a fair duel, then you started face-hugging and spamming me. So maybe its you who suffers a

a physical disability

.
At least you should know in a game as easy as this one its impossible to win against a guy with better ping except he makes a big mistake.

(This doesnt mean I am 100 % certain I would pwn you all the time with a good computer and decent ping, it only is supposed to mean thats not very bright to be too proud.)

What I know for sure is I "own" a lot of players with better ping in native duels so I cant be that horrible. But even if I was, I wouldnt care, because I play for fun in my free time and I really dont see why I should allow you to kill my fun because I help my team win. (Not my fault that you always end up in the enemy team and are not smart enough to avoid places where I can catch you.)

Lastly, this topic is alright, if it wouldnt try to dictate playstyles and trying to bring others down.

I didnt rage about other players playstyle for a long time. Do you think I am amused being forced to wear plate so that my rider can survive at least 1 arrow coming out of nowhere? Or that every cheap stick can stop my horse, even if its at full speed? Or that a 2h can almost kill the heavy plated charger with one stab? Or that 1 throwing lance can 1 shot kill it?

Do you think the guy you backstab is happy because he was killed by a Ninja? 


Play siege, if you want, but keep your propaganda and insults to a minimum.


One more thing. I wouldnt care if they decided to remove the horse charge completely, I still would enjoy riding you down.

I enjoy trampling over easy-moders.

If you were skilled, you would play with peasants gear.

At least you wouldnt feel proud when you "own" a guy with crap internet, char with 0 athletics, a small mace and way less wpf than you.

Or at least like one former fellow Ninja did with no armor, Wakisazhi and bamboo spear.


Malas playstyle is okay like everyone elses. But I think its kinda funny that you respect him with his unbreakable shield more than anyone else while you always told your low level members not to use a shield.



On spamming, well, I have always (almost) the worst ping on the server so of course I would appreciate it if there was some stamina added, so that at least after parrying the enemy several times I should get a chance to strike back.

have you ever duel a ninja?

Ask Khorin/ Khejoke.

Also, I never sayed he or Lisa have no combat skill. What I said was they go easy mode themselves, and complain others going easymode.

Of course I go easymode with the best gear money can buy. It helps me to fight from the beginning to the end of the round. I dont have to hide, I dont have to leech, I dont have to wait. I can play the game. If I had more free time then perhaps I would keep it real but not under those circumstances. When players with good computers and best ping go easiest mode with bow and spam 2h/ poleaxe, why not me?

And yeah, it pisses me off that everyone I took down a couple of times starts crying/ insulting/ polling me, or, if he is in my team, teamattacking my horse.   

[Seawied]

I don't understand why this is in game balance? This little feud you have with the ninjas Finn is nothing game related.

[Momo]

Arguing again....*sigh* Should I make a whine topic about armored horses(it really pisses me off that I have to carry a pike just for these guys)/ak 47 archers(they spam you to fking death it doesnt matter if you have a shield and I dont want to invest 6 skillpoints for an  almost unbreakable steel shield)/lulswords with über pierece and range/1shot tincans with xbows/ladder and construction site spammers/high str onehit builds/OP HA... You don't need skill for these things too ^^. Spamming is part of the game you can't remove it. People call me spammer, YES I agree on that ,but wohooo what a big spam I one or two hit in most cases(because of lvl, yes this is part of the game too) plus I often do blocks except when I dont see the reason for blocking but againts überhiglvls I have to or they 1 hit me or if I dont spam they spam me. The best e.g. for this a skilled überhiglvl tincan with lulsword, how can you stop them in meele without spamming? what about if he starts spamming you? If I make a mistake(only one is enough, sorry for having life) Im dead, katana doesnt matter, so I just spam back and I survive. In the current mod everything is unbalanced, we need the new patch.. And ninja/samurai stuff has it's own disadvantages, but I think they are at least balanced. And one last word, you can beat annoying builds with a more annoiyng build. You can start blame me if you want .

Edit: About ninjas, they are very skilled at blocking.

[Poetrydog]

I didnt rage about other players playstyle for a long time. Do you think I am amused being forced to wear plate so that my rider can survive at least 1 arrow coming out of nowhere? Or that every cheap stick can stop my horse, even if its at full speed? Or that a 2h can almost kill the heavy plated charger with one stab? Or that 1 throwing lance can 1 shot kill it?

I'm not really interested but just wanted to correct you anyway. I've never tried to 1 shot a plated charger. Heck there's many horses I couldn't 1 shot back when i was a throwing guy. They'd would have to either: Not have full health or be headshottet. Which i can tell you isn't that easy as the throwing lances are far from accurate. Actually I've never 1 shottet a plated charger. Not even in the end of a game where it must have been low on health. So please don't say that  (oh and.... does this belong in game balance?)

[Siiem]

Ninjas arent the issue, heirloomd spamitars with heirloomd/steelshield is the real problem.

[Babelfish]

I wasnt crying.
I was trying and obviously failing to explain thats not a big thing when a "Ninja" "owns" (outspams in other words) a "tincan". He has all advantages on his side (ignore ping, computer for now).

What I was "crying", complaining as better word I would prefer, were e-peen comments like the Ninjas as the only true class with skill that seek a challenge while all others go easy-mode to kill the Ninjas fun.

And thats just elephant shit. Of course its annoying, when I ride down Thomek, so that some teammate can kill him. Its my job to be annoying when I am on the enemy team.

On skill, I was refusing to "earn" my blackhood because I was wearing it weeks before you came up with this new rule. So what would be my motivation to earn something I already had for a long time? Screenshots, I have plenty where I was wearing no armor (only this padded jack or whats is called), using only longsword (hadnt the money for something better that time) and was on top with 10 - 0 k - d r.

Refusing duelling you? lol
With my yarons_bodyguard, even with my crap internet and computer I owned your higher level char in a fair duel, then you started face-hugging and spamming me. So maybe its you who suffers a .
At least you should know in a game as easy as this one its impossible to win against a guy with better ping except he makes a big mistake.

(This doesnt mean I am 100 % certain I would pwn you all the time with a good computer and decent ping, it only is supposed to mean thats not very bright to be too proud.)

What I know for sure is I "own" a lot of players with better ping in native duels so I cant be that horrible. But even if I was, I wouldnt care, because I play for fun in my free time and I really dont see why I should allow you to kill my fun because I help my team win. (Not my fault that you always end up in the enemy team and are not smart enough to avoid places where I can catch you.)

Lastly, this topic is alright, if it wouldnt try to dictate playstyles and trying to bring others down.

I didnt rage about other players playstyle for a long time. Do you think I am amused being forced to wear plate so that my rider can survive at least 1 arrow coming out of nowhere? Or that every cheap stick can stop my horse, even if its at full speed? Or that a 2h can almost kill the heavy plated charger with one stab? Or that 1 throwing lance can 1 shot kill it?

Do you think the guy you backstab is happy because he was killed by a Ninja? 


Play siege, if you want, but keep your propaganda and insults to a minimum.


One more thing. I wouldnt care if they decided to remove the horse charge completely, I still would enjoy riding you down.

I enjoy trampling over easy-moders.

If you were skilled, you would play with peasants gear.

At least you wouldnt feel proud when you "own" a guy with crap internet, char with 0 athletics, a small mace and way less wpf than you.

Or at least like one former fellow Ninja did with no armor, Wakisazhi and bamboo spear.


Malas playstyle is okay like everyone elses. But I think its kinda funny that you respect him with his unbreakable shield more than anyone else while you always told your low level members not to use a shield.



On spamming, well, I have always (almost) the worst ping on the server so of course I would appreciate it if there was some stamina added, so that at least after parrying the enemy several times I should get a chance to strike back.



Ask Khorin/ Khejoke.

Also, I never sayed he or Lisa have no combat skill. What I said was they go easy mode themselves, and complain others going easymode.

Of course I go easymode with the best gear money can buy. It helps me to fight from the beginning to the end of the round. I dont have to hide, I dont have to leech, I dont have to wait. I can play the game. If I had more free time then perhaps I would keep it real but not under those circumstances. When players with good computers and best ping go easiest mode with bow and spam 2h/ poleaxe, why not me?

And yeah, it pisses me off that everyone I took down a couple of times starts crying/ insulting/ polling me, or, if he is in my team, teamattacking my horse.

Messy post, but here we go.

Michael,
im not sure if your are lying, or just ignorant/inexperienced.

Lets get a few thing straight;

1. Agility is the main source for attack-speed.(0,5% per point)
2. Powerstrike is the main source for damage. (8 % per point)
3. WPF increase attack-speed (dunno how much, but less then agility) and damage (8% per 100 points afaik)

Its common knowledge that you may perform better with less armor, however most people wont bother. Heavy armor + a decent amount of ironflesh lets you survive 1-3 extra blows + a high chance of the opponent getting a glancing blow.
 As you can see from the above points (1-3) the penalty you get from wearing heavy armor is minimal, a mere 1-8 % less damage and a small speed-reduction. But as this obviously is a agi-whore thread you have to take into account that most agi-monsters are having less strength then the regular tin-can, which makes the tin-cans the hardest hitting players.

I think we can agree on the speed part, we are faster then most people, and sometimes we can spam people to death. However bouncing/glacing is a real threat to us.

Ill admit, i was under the assumption that playing 2h with no shield and low armor was the most and only challenging play-style in this game, but after having tried every skill-tree, ill admit light-cavalry was pretty hard & challenging too.

On the ping, well its a double edged sword, playing against someone with higher ping makes chambering and timing a bit tricky. But in general, yes its harder to play with higher ping. However if its below 100, you have no reason to whine.

The other thread was not made to dictate how others should play the game, but rather try to explain why so many have started playing siege lately. People are getting tired of the current meta-game on the battle servers and it shows, i do have great expectations for the upcoming patch, but i think people will take min-maxing to a whole new level come patch.

Of-course the player on the receiving end of a backstab is going to be frustrated, but take into account that our style was 'invented' to deal with annoying range players ;)
We are mere trying to bring a little hurt to those buggers that stand one mile away from the battle, firing happily into melee. However the increasingly population of flanking cavalry, most notably horse-archers have made that mission into a nightmare.

There are few people in this game i get a proud from killing, i can assure you, someone with 0 ath, 1h mace and lower-level are not one of them. For me, they are merely speed-bumps.

The reason mala is respected is that he has not changed his playstyle to suit the increasing min-maxing that is happening. He sticks with his themed character and is also very good at the game.

Fyi, we use a sub-par weapon. Armor that gives us no great benefit in terms of speed or soaking. Please, tell me how that is easymode?

When i was using tears and pilgrim-garbs i was always in the top 3, no matter the server. Rejoined ninja, and suddenly i noticed how hard the katana really was to play with, compared to tears. I had a really hard time to kill anything. Switched back to tears for a few rounds and behold, i was able to top the charts again.
 Please note, i do not wish katana to be buffed up to the level of the lolswords, but i want each weapon to have a advantage and a disadvantage.

 

[Paul]

Canned wine is disgusting.

[Belmont]

There is no difference between Ninjas and Shogunate who use European swords and axes, its the same kill hungry playstyle, get as much kills as possible as easy as possible.

Not everyone likes to use katanas or nodachis and it is why we removed most weapon restrictions but still keep other restrictions such as no shields and only eastern armor (only exception being Transitional due to heraldry). Ninjas largely still stick to their traditional weapons and very few of them use an European weapons.

Would also like to note that we have very few high agility players in our clan, so I am surprised we are named in a topic about agility whine.

Or that a 2h can almost kill the heavy plated charger with one stab? Or that 1 throwing lance can 1 shot kill it?

Bullshit is the only word which fits properly for this as even a Destrier can survive most of the time a lance from me. I have never killed your horse is one stab either as most of the time your shield magically absorbs the hit and when I actually hit your horse, it takes a minimum of two stabs. The average player needs at least 3+ stabs as very few people have 12 PS. If I remember correctly your horse survives on a regular basis 3 throwing lances (2 with speed bonus) from me, taking 4 or more from a lower PT thrower.

Also, I never sayed he or Lisa have no combat skill. What I said was they go easy mode themselves, and complain others going easymode.

I would never call the katana "easy mode" as it is an inferior weapon compared to most European swords due to the lack of range AND a pathetic thrust. The nodachi is easily the worst two handed sword in the game right but it is being addressed in the upcoming patch. The speed of the katana is also being addressed in the patch.

If you do not consider your play style "easy mode" you have no right to complain about any other play style. Archers and Ninjas actually require skill.

[Gorath]

Why are ya'll even wasting time responding to Finished?  He's a blatant troll both on the forums and in-game, hell his entire playstyle could be summed up as trolling put in character form.  It'd be understandable if it was someone with skill actually whining, but c'mon people, it's finished.  The only skill he has is in stirring you all up.