Better valor system?

[Snoozer]

hey i have been wondering about the experience system for a while.i want it to be different but every idea i had to fix it seems null and void seeing how the current system was most of the time made to counter it or was discussed early but never was used,did not get enough steam or was just proven to be noneffective if it was instilled into the game

so maybe we should change the valor system or atleast add to it or have a better way to keep your multiplier?

its seems like a borderline mystery as to how to even attain valor,so far all i can see is that so long as you live the longest/kill a bunch of people you will get it other then that its a mystery
(sadly alot of leechers or people who didnt even contribute to the round have cried out in triumph or confusion to have gotten it simply by living the longest which is rather sad imo)

but valor is hardly effective maybe a couple people will get it (1-3 of the loosing team of there lucky)and if they do it has no real effect on them seeing how they had an x1 in the first place.

so maybe lighten up the requirements of getting valor to keep your multi?:

-if you get valor you keep your multi(of course) but if you had an x1 you get an x2 just for your efforts
(god forbid if you get a wasted valor Q_Q)

-a little bit more easy to get valor
instead of maybe the usual count of people geting valour it would be raised higher about maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of losers who contributed to the fight and listed who got valor the round maybe BETTER YET BASED MORE ON THE PLAYER not just some valor quota/limit

-MORE clear reasons behind the valor system so we can fully understand what the requirements of geting it other then you survive to be last and have to kill a bunch of people<-that seems rather vague and if im not mistaken are some of the main reasons why the new xp system was put in to stop kill whoring and people leeching by the fight
(so i have been told i was around then  )

-1st round you do not loose your multi.the teams are kind of free for all and if i EVER lost my multi it was in the first round of a new map due to the fact the teams r strange because if im not mistaken balance is done after 1st round?

im just tired of grinding on a x1 man i hope i am not the only one.it take like damn near 9 million xp(i do not know the exact number i know its around 8.7 mil) to retire and i would rather do that 5 times faster with an x5 then do it with an x1 where worst case scenario i will have to take 9000 minutes to do it (150 hours to get to 9 million)am i truly always on x1?no but a lot of the time i am so instead of TOTALLY reworking the xp system just make it easy to get valor so your not totally fucked on the loosing team and its more of YOUR EFFORTS AS A PLAYER IN THE ROUND

if anyone has any criticism or other idea to add feel free to post im just tired of being damned on the loosing team with an x1,id rather JUST MAYBE if i try my hardest i can get bare minimum valor if not victory before i get killed


(i just copied and pasted this to the right forumn section btw sorry about that lol)

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

The problem I see with give a +1x for the valour champs is that the same people tend to pull them. Meaning that the same already awesome people would have x5 constantly and be constantly ahead of everyone else in every imaginable respect.

Perhaps instead of boosting the xs it just gives you 1000 gold, or something to that effect.

I often find that I get it when I am on x1, being the last member of the noob side to get splatered.

[Snoozer]

well if the A+ players tend to keep their multis anyway whats the problem then?

this just makes it so it isnt JUST the cream of the crop to be rewarded but maybe the B+ players as well 

and if you added more gold to the ticks wouldnt the all star players be ahead anyways?

seeing how there already ahead i dont see the problem maybe this will shorten the gap if it was a little bit more easy for the B/C players to keep up with them if you could get valor because no doubt...those A+ players  ALSO usually get the valor...

[Snoozer]

bump

[Bulzur]

No.

We're talking about valour here, not something that every 1/4th of the loosing team gets "everytime".

Also, based on my own experiences :
-valour has nothing to do with kills
-valour has something to do with proximity with a bunch of ennemies
-valour may have something to do with life lost, while still alive, for a long time
-valour, thus, has something to do with how long you remain alive
I think it's :
-based on the longer time ennemies surround you while you're not in full health.

Scenarios:
You hide during the all round, are the last of your team, get couched by a cav : no valour
You fight while flanking, kill one guy, loose a bit of hp, then flank the big force wich is slaughtering your allies, survive a bit in the clusterfuck. The last guy die in less than 1min after you die : valour.
You're a roofcamper xbow with a side weapon. You shoot people down. You get shoot but survive. You're the last on the unreachable roof, ennemies are surrounding you. You jump down without getting damage, kill a wounded peasant you had noticed before, block a few times while getting ganked, then finally die : valour.



The problem with this system, is, you may have noticed, the third scenario. Only give valour to players having no horses and no ranged weapon, and it'll become a bit more glorious "valour" than now.

Problem with your suggestion, has dangah said, is that very good players will have a permanent x5. And yes, that's bad. Nothing more frustrating for a new player, to get "balanced" in the loosing team, while knowing that the best player of their team doesn't care about the result since he always get valour. I wouldn't mind actually if the "valour" was more restricted : you can't get it twice in a row, for example.

[Slamz]

As far as I can tell, you get valor by being one of the last ones standing.  I have never gotten valor without being one of the last 1-3 people on my team to die.  Consequently there is a problem with "valor farmers" -- people who run for the far corner of the map when the going gets tough, in order to die last, or who spend the first 3 minutes of the battle hiding in a shack because they want to make sure they don't die too early and lose all chance for valor.

Ironic, really, that valor is often given to the most cowardly pieces of ____ on the server.

I have a friend who got valor for, I kid you not, 1 TK.  That was all he did during the match: killed one friendly.  But he was one of the last to die so... valor!

My suggestion for valor is to start with a 0% chance and then increase it based on:
* If you do a lot of damage (regardless of kills)
* If you do a very high proportion of enemy damage vs team damage
* Bonus if you got any killing blows while at 10% health or less
* Chance increased for dealing damage against people that are worth more than you (e.g. guy in light leather killing tin cans has a bigger chance for valor than the other way around)
* Bonus for damage taken (the more you got hit, the more valorous -- of course, you have to not die)


Siege could also reward valor, perhaps based on time spent near key objectives, i.e., flags, doors, gates, gate controls, etc.  Bonus for being present at the flag during the last minute (offense or defense).

[Snoozer]

bulzar im not saying IT HAS TO BE 1/4 of the team that was just an example of how it would be a little bit more easy to get it, and the examples you have used i have seen people get valor for those scenarios and thats why i think the current system is ridiculous because of it.

slamz is right too i have seen MANY rounds where i died early and i go see the person who says hes getting a lot of valor is just forcing duels 

and like a said the odds of the A+ player getting x5 are very much higher anyways because of this and things i stated before,so why not make the odds a little better for the B+ players

[Phoenix]

I think getting Valour should give you 750 Gold

[Snoozer]

BUMP

[Snoozer]

Should there be a better valor system?
Yes 23 (76.7%)
No 7 (23.3%)
Total Members Voted: 30

^well as of right now i am not the only one who agrees can someone at least explain to me why the valor system is setup like the way it is now? it seems like it is not fully utilized

[Panoply]

I don't think there's any issue with the experience progression as is.

The valor system, however, is fucked. In my experience, it clearly rewards delaying and hiding, which is ironic given that the bonus is supposed to reward the valiant. I've noticed plenty of people who specifically game this system. I would rather the whole valor system removed if it can't be improved.

When the feature first came out and people were speculating about its mechanics... I specifically said that I didn't think it would encourage behaviour like peasant hunting or delaying, because I thought chadz was making deliberate efforts to avoid such game-y behaviour. I guess I was wrong... or this valor system didn't work out as intended. The concept makes some sense to me, but its flawed in that it seems to quite clearly reward cowardly conduct.

[Snoozer]

I don't think there's any issue with the experience progression as is.

The valor system, however, is fucked. In my experience, it clearly rewards delaying and hiding, which is ironic given that the bonus is supposed to reward the valiant. I've noticed plenty of people who specifically game this system. I would rather the whole valor system removed if it can't be improved.

When the feature first came out and people were speculating about its mechanics... I specifically said that I didn't think it would encourage behaviour like peasant hunting or delaying, because I thought chadz was making deliberate efforts to avoid such game-y behaviour. I guess I was wrong... or this valor system didn't work out as intended. The concept makes some sense to me, but its flawed in that it seems to quite clearly reward cowardly conduct.

^yes

if im not mistaken the first "true" valor system was in single player native in the tournaments

its was simple if you killed 1-2 people in the slaughter you usually were aloud to join the next match to get another chance to win

but the crpg way is if you hide in the edge of the battle and wait till the enemy team comes and mauls you you get to go to the next round. it blows my mind away when i saw this valor system when in my head i was comparing it to the native single system on how broken it was

am i saying that is the way the valor system should work? no it should be waaay more harder to get it and have more factors then just kills

[Zisa]

'Since discretion is the better part of valour, and cowardice the better part of discretion, he valiantly hid in the closet.'