Author Topic: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker  (Read 2782 times)

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Offline Decurtius

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(BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
« on: September 28, 2011, 08:32:14 pm »
This is my very first post for such a request. Know, however that this kind of behavior is common, and although I do not feel compelled to take action every time, a message must be sent at some point. I'm talking about anti-french racism. In proportions, it is running rampant and rarely regarded as "racism" for some reason. However, if one does link insults to to a particular ethnic group, it would, in its proper sense and meaning, be qualificating the group, and not the individual and therefore can, and must, be considered as a racist comment. Wich is why I demand, in the name of the french-canadian community of cRPG, and the other players, respectful of diversity,  that this individual be banned from the server on wich he exposed racist behaviors. (cRPG NA1) Here is the link of one of thoses -quite over the line- insult, taken today. It may seems benign, but, really leaves me wondering what would be the reaction a the anglo-saxon community if we allowed ourselves such marks of disrespect. I am sure that my point is then, quite understandable.

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Thanks for your time and understanding.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 08:43:44 pm by Decurtius »

Offline arowaine

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Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Cock_Knocker
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2011, 08:35:43 pm »
100% agree this guys deserve a ban as a exemple.
Desire: pls smite FCC 2.0 T.T

Offline Siboire

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Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Cock_Knocker
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2011, 08:38:43 pm »
^ +1

 :mad:

Offline Druss

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Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Cock_Knocker
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2011, 08:45:35 pm »
+1 God wills it.

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2011, 08:52:08 pm »
So, According to what you're saying, If someone calls me an American Asshole, that's racism and should be banned?

1) Everyone know's Occitan are French Canadians and you don't lets Non-french speakers in.(I've heard, but there's truth in rumors)
2) He called you that after saying he was harassing people.
3) Therefore, he calls you french, which is what you are, and insults you for trying to make slanderous comments on him.

Racism?

Oh, 4) Welcome to the internet?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 08:54:05 pm by Lt_Anders »
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Offline Devilize

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Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2011, 08:53:12 pm »
This American bastard  person would like to +1. There is no call for racist slurs of any kind in any situation. Play together - Respect each other.

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2011, 08:54:32 pm »
Be warned that if I ban this guy for saying one racist line, there will be a significant "casualty" list as I will have to do this for everyone who utters any sort of discriminatory hate speech.

Is this what the NA community wants?

If so, then I shall gladly start handing out kicks mutes and short bans for this type of behavior, which will be a daily occurrence.

I understand that hate speech is not a good thing, but for even a single line of this to be a bannable offense, I will have to start punishing extremely large numbers of people every day, even for saying for example "you my old friend" which occurs almost every map at least once due to people screaming at roof campers or running archers.

I personally don't like nor condone this behavior, just keep in mind what you are asking for.
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Offline Devilize

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Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2011, 08:57:32 pm »
I understand that hate speech is not a good thing, but for even a single line of this to be a bannable offense, I will have to start punishing extremely large numbers of people every day, even for saying for example "you my old friend" which occurs almost every map at least once due to people screaming at roof campers or running archers.

Depends, are they using the Urban dictionary version or the Webster?

Offline Siboire

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Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2011, 09:14:21 pm »
(click to show/hide)

So you're saying that you would not care somebody saying something as stupid as "American fuck"? (I am not calling you this, I'm just wandering if your answer to the topic would have been different if it would have been this case.)

(click to show/hide)

That dude IS harrassing ppl ingame: he kicks teamate archers when they are trying to shoot and it can even sometimes go up to teamwounding tho I personnally don't have any proof. Also, what is the link between not letting non-french speakers in? It's like the german, turk, russian or wtv clans that are full of germans/turks... nothing to do with racism. Also, we are really close to Hospitallers, we share the same TS in fact so we more than often get english-only speakers and we enjoy talking with them. Again, nothing to do with racism. I don't see your point.

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2011, 09:20:00 pm »
So you're saying that you would not care somebody saying something as stupid as "American fuck"? (I am not calling you this, I'm just wandering if your answer to the topic would have been different if it would have been this case.)

I do care and I have been called or similar things that many times on cRPG, both on the forums and in game. However, nobody seems to really do anything about it unless it is a plethora of insuts, so I hesitate to be the first to ban off of just one line of it.

In all honesty if it was him saying "You American Fuck" then I would probably take it less seriously considering that is one of the most common insults ever directed towards me on the internet.

If another Admin agrees to clamp down on this behavior then I shall gladly issue a ban and in the fture give an auto kick towards anyone who hurls any hate speech in game. I just foresee a lot of "flak" going towards my way if I do this.

I personally would be in favour of absolutely zero tolerance on hate speech for the servers, where even a one-liner can get you kicked. Just notice that a lot of people are used to hurling rampant insults, and will not take kindly to this change, and I don't want to be the only Admin doing this and thus being the sole target of criticism.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 09:22:16 pm by Tears_of_Destiny »
I'm not normal and I don't pretend so, my approach is pretty much a bomb crescendo.
Death is a fun way to pass the time though, several little bullets moving in staccato.
The terror of my reign will live on in infamy, singing when they die like a dead man's symphony.

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2011, 09:25:31 pm »
That dude IS harrassing ppl ingame: he kicks teamate archers when they are trying to shoot and it can even sometimes go up to teamwounding tho I personnally don't have any proof. Also, what is the link between not letting non-french speakers in? It's like the german, turk, russian or wtv clans that are full of germans/turks... nothing to do with racism. Also, we are really close to Hospitallers, we share the same TS in fact so we more than often get english-only speakers and we enjoy talking with them. Again, nothing to do with racism. I don't see your point.

Point 1 is just pointing out a (known) fact. Everyone in your clan is French Canadian, no exceptions.
Point 2 states another fact. Arowaine says he's doing something, publicly in chat.(Of course we don't see any proof, so it is nothing more than bitching about someone)
Point 3 states a Logical Conclusion, He's angry, He knows you're french, therefore he insults.

And tears pointed it out quite nicely. If this is even remotely bannable, then people should get banned for far far more things, friendly archer(my old friend cher), for example, would then be bannable.

Oh and on the internet, if people don't know you, and you are french, you are already hated. (I can tell you how many in our clan that are canadian don't like you, even though they have NEVER talked to any of you personally. Stereotypes do that.)

EDIT: HAHAHA my old friend and CHER makes FRIENDLY ARCHER
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 09:27:06 pm by Lt_Anders »
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Offline Siboire

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Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2011, 09:46:46 pm »
I admit, I am one of the first to rage against range (calling them f@gs and such cuz of their playstyle) and I would accept a kick for doing such thing. On the other hand, insulting/hating somebody after/for their nationality/race is just plain racist and stupid. Even more when you don't know much about them and you put them all in the same basket cuz of stereotypes like the Canadians and their French Canadian Stereotypes for exemple.

Offline Goldwyn

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Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2011, 09:51:07 pm »
This aint about Canadians OR Americans. In fact both of them are Americans. We are currently speaking of the language we speak. Like you say Anders you have multiple of Canadians in ur clan wich hate french Canadian. Do they speak french by any chance? This kind of hate aint from yesterday. It had been this way for long long time. Language and religion made wars. I understand wat my friend is trying to say when he wants this guy banned. And i know it is not the first time nor the last time we will receive those kind of hatefull comments.

But tears marks a semi-point in this story. Yes it would dramatically lower the player in our community servers if we start banning every single one of them that makes those kind of comments. Because most of them are people that had a bad day and want to release their emotions in such a way. Or just plain Assholes who just likes to look tough writing shit. Wat I mean is that even if we start banning people saying those kind of things will just be a kiss on a wound. But it would not heal it.

 French speakers and English speakers will always have this hate on each other. I personally think that this kind of hate comes when you see a text or you hear something you dont understand. So french speakers dont understand English or English speakers that dont understand French get frustrated and start hating those people. Put it this way : Ever went to school? i hope so. Ever did a math test where you did not study or a problem that you did not understand. And because you did not understand you are starting to get pissed off at everything. Well it happened to me. probably happened to you too. So this kind of frustation comes back the same way when you hear or see a language u do not understand.

I know it is bad. Personally i dont hate other people that is different from me. Because i know if this person gets personal with those kind of comments, it could piss him off or hurt him. And for us, Occitan, we think that if we dont go and hate on you guys (concerned people only) we dont deserve to be hated on. So please stop this for those that understands wat i am saying. And for the others, well... i wish you luck on ur future and that you will wake up some day.

Good day,
Occitan_Captain_Crunch

Offline Decurtius

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Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2011, 10:05:37 pm »
In the first place, I would like to comment on Ander's comment:

That comment you posted about our linguistic exclusivity is irrelevant. We are french speakers and play together for communication purposes. Speaking french is an occitan requierement, not being french. It is on our forum post and website -get your facts straight-
It is so because we WISH to speak french and 1 allophone would force us to speak english. It would then destroy our primary purpose as a clan: enjoying the game in the language of our choosing. Forcing us to the contrary, would be disrespectful and disregard the very notion of cultural difference. Ergo, it would be racist. And trust me when I say we already get enough of that speak white crap on the servers when we dare express ourselves in the language of our choosing. Words have a weight. Weigh them carefully.
Moreover, regardless of the very notion of clonflict, insults should not trespass the border of ethnic classifications. Aka: a fucker is a fucker in every corner of the world; giving that word exclusivity over one ethnic and/or linguistic group IS racist. It is in fact, the very definition of the word: Reducing a group to a single caracteristic.

Now, about what the moderator himself said:

Quote:
I understand that hate speech is not a good thing, but for even a single line of this to be a bannable offense, I will have to start punishing extremely large numbers of people every day, even for saying for example "you my old friend" which occurs almost every map at least once due to people screaming at roof campers or running archers.
I personally don't like nor condone this behavior, just keep in mind what you are asking for.

Although I understand that for technical reasons, it is impossible to impose a 100% standard over communication, there is a line. We are not talking about insults here, we are talking about racism. The fact that you said "I personally don't like nor condone this behavior" is remarkably insensitive. You cannot ignore racism, it is not only a matter of decency, it is the law. In your personal name, you can do whatever you want, but you are asked as a public publisher, to take action. Now, taking it one step at a time, I understand your situation and know you have limited courses of action if you start making trials for each one of thoses situations.

What I will ask however, is that admins apply the server rules. Where you can't take action, there was an admin on site, and Ad-hoc actions are taken for lesser offenses. Asking for a kick is something common, and should be obtained when such a situation arise. I will speak of my personal experience here: I've had enough, being called frog, french fuck, french coward, french trash, gay french etc. While such actions would call immediate justice emaning from an english player. Do not prove to us that there are 2 separate classes of players in this game and at the very least, aknowledge that we are right when we say it is racism, and is against what cRPG stands for.
Thank you.

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2011, 10:09:41 pm »
Me saying that "I personally don't like nor condone this behavior" of people exhibiting racism is me being insensitive? My apologies.

I shall step aside for another moderator to handle this then.
I'm not normal and I don't pretend so, my approach is pretty much a bomb crescendo.
Death is a fun way to pass the time though, several little bullets moving in staccato.
The terror of my reign will live on in infamy, singing when they die like a dead man's symphony.