Katana Analyzed in Relation to the Bastard Sword

[cmp]

Don't balance by math? Then what can you balance on. The entire game is run on math. There has not been a single insightful or constructive comment made by the community to my post. Just a bunch of groundless statements.

Certainly not the kind of math that says a katana should have a speed of 142.

[Fasader]

okay, next patch katana 142 speed. only fair. also, most of the <1.25 weight weapons getting 150+ speed

[Jago]

I can swing a weapon that weighs half as much as another much quicker. Your strawmen arguements can not change the laws of physics.

[Vexus]

This is a game not reality.

Balances are made around fairness not what physics says.

[Jago]

Physics is fair.

[Tristan]

Jago... You win this years price for best troll post.

YOu are awarded this price because:

1) you worked hard (math and stuff)
2) We almost believed you
3) I lolled in the end!

[Jago]

Another garbage post that contributes nothing. Slightly creative, but joking around at my expense doesn't prove anything.

[EponiCo]

If physics would just say it in the first place.
But let's be fair, make the katana and bastard sword competitive. How about this:

Katana
3086
weight 1.8
requirement 9
spd rtng 99
weapon length 101
swing damage 35, cut
thrust damage 23 pierce
Secondary Mode (Sepuku Mode, the katana is so sharp you'd just hurt yourself while halfswording)

[POOPHAMMER]

You sound like a butthurt loser

[Gorath]

Certainly not the kind of math that says a katana should have a speed of 142.

This

Good troll though.  *By your math my military cleaver should be omfgodly*

[Kalam]

You're forgetting curvature and whatever else makes katanas harder for the run of the mill player to block, in addition to the fact that it snakes around shields with the ease of a polearm.

That, that's priceless.

And why I'd use a katana over a bastard sword.

Also: Prophecy of Pendor seems to have the highest speed weapons of any mod I've played. Raising any speed past 110 brings us into the realm of 'omfg, my only way to deal with this is back pedal and spam more'.

[Jago]

Some actual discussion about the mathematics of the system would be good.  Explain how the system works and how my analysis is wrong and I will listen. Be constructive, not condescending, and I will listen. Please don't be insulting.

[Mattressi]

By comparing the weight of the swords to each other, we can determine their speed, or vice versa. Differences in length can also effect the speed of the sword.

No, you cannot. Grab a pen (do it!) and swing it as fast as you can through the air. Now, grab 5 pens (same make/model) and swing them through the air. Did you swing 5 times slower? Our arms have a maximum speed at which they can swing. At low weights your arm will swing objects at roughly the same speed. Even if your muscles were able to contract at an infinite speed (again, they cannot), you'd need to take the weight of your arm(s) into account (including armor).

These sources indicate that the average weight of a human arm is 5% of the person's body weight. The average male weighs around 190 lbs (let's keep it in the ridiculous Imperial system because I believe that's the units Mount and Blade uses for weight). That means the average arm weighs 9.5 lbs. That means two human arms weigh 19 lbs. So, the ratio of the moving weight difference between the katana and the bastard sword is ACTUALLY 19 + 1.8 vs 19 + 1.25. That gives a ratio of 1.0272, which means the speed of the katana (given the bastard sword has a speed of 99) should be approximately 101.7 (102 rounded up). Obviously this speed difference would reduce further as more weight is added to the arm due to armor.


This is completely ignoring that your concept of physics is "it is heavier, therefore slower". Grab a hammer by the head and flick it with your wrist. How fast does it swing? Now, grab the hammer by the bottom of the handle and flick it with your wrist. Notice that it swings considerably slower? Weight distribution greatly affects the speed of an object being swung.

As for the thrust; have you ever tried stabbing a tree with an axe (as in, grab it by the head and push)? Try the same thing with a knife (real knife, not a kitchen one, lest you break it). You'll notice the knife penetrates much further. The katana was designed for cutting, while hand and a half swords were designed for cutting AND stabbing. They have a very pointed tip, while the katana essentially has a a cutting edge for a tip. Because the bastard sword's tip has a much smaller surface area, much more pressure is applied to the area it contacts than would occur if the katana was used.

Please, come back when you've learnt some basic physics.

[Jago]

I appreciate the effort to have a mathematic backing to your argument. If you take out the condescending tone, it would be perfect! Almost there, thanks for having the best reply yet.

Still, consider that a pen weighs about an ounce, while bastard swords and katanas weigh 3 pounds, in real world situations. that is roughly 50 times as heavy. Again, another strawman argument.

Your example of the hammer is good, but actually works against you because the katana is the shorter weapon. My calculations actually include this effect.

Oh, and as far as the shape of the tip is concerned for thrusting, the difference is slight, and the advantage of weight and length would go to the katana. Conversely in the game, the bastard sword is the better thrust weapon. A dagger is a better thrust weapon in cRPG though it is one handed. Absurd.

[Mattressi]

I appreciate the effort to have a mathematic backing to your argument. If you take out the condescending tone, it would be perfect! Almost there, thanks for having the best reply yet.

Still, consider that a pen weighs about an ounce, while bastard swords and katanas weigh 3 pounds, in real world situations. that is roughly 50 times as heavy. Again, another strawman argument.

Your example of the hammer is good, but actually works against you because the katana is the shorter weapon. My calculations actually include this effect.

The condescending tone is there because you seem to be under the impression that your application of physics is correct enough to call other people 'douchebags' for not responding with further nonsense science.

Please reply to my calculations when the weight of the two arms is included. The fact that you didn't makes me further believe that you're just trolling. To prove me wrong, reply to it. Where do you see the flaw in the logic?

As for length, it is irrelevant. Weight distribution is what is relevant. Hell, a sword that is longer is technically travelling faster (at the tip) than a shorter sword: the angular velocity is similar, but the point velocity is greater (point velocity = angular velocity multiplied by the length).