2h agility (ninja) - is it worth to play?

[pratolli]

I have realised that this build isn't that effective. Should I reroll for a 2h str build? Or should I keep trying?

[Vibe]

How deep into agility did you actually go?
STR builds have more benefits than AGI though, and if you can block you'll be deadly.

[Bulzur]

I have realised that this build isn't that effective. Should I reroll for a 2h str build? Or should I keep trying?

It's pretty hard to play since you lack damage and health.
When duelling, the extra athletics gives you a good edge over shielders for example. It also allows you to catch xbows and archers by behind faster, doing flanking tactics.
I tried a 15/24, the usual ninja, and still couldn't outspeed archers and xbow since my equipment was heavier.
I'm now doing a 18/21, but i still rely on footwork, and most of all flanking. Nothing is more thrilling than killing one guy on the right side, enabling you to go "behind" the ennemy main force, without being noticed. You can do a rampage there, hurting shielders and all, while your teammates still push onward. Very effective. And i found that thoses 3 more str instead of agi are worth it, since weapon master is... hum... from 7 to 8, the difference in one weapon is... less noticeable than 5 more health. And PS is worth Athl, when you already have 7 athletics.


I'll advise you to try a balanced build, like 21/18 or 18/21, then you see what you like, and what you lack. If you're satisfied, stay with it, else tweak it a bit for more str or more agi.

[Teeth]

It is an entertaining playstyle, but definetely harder than a properly armored build. What light armour and 7-8 athlethics give you is the power of mobility. You'll be able to outrun all the melee infantry. This is what your battle playstyle should rely on.

Light armour is essential though, heavy gear can quickly decrease your running speed. I am not a ninja anymore and I have a 21/18 build now. Still, when I get into very light armor I can still use my ninja tactics. A 15/24 build with medium armor is already not really fast anymore.

You might want to sheath your weapon when running, depending on your weapon weight they decrease speed more when you carry them then when you sheath them.

When able to outrun your opponents you can effectively apply hit and run tactics. Hit someone and run away before multiple enemies get the chance to attack you. You can harrass the enemy by following them and running away whenever they start to chase you. As soon as you are faster than most other people battle becomes a whole different ball game, because you can always pick your fights.

Only fight weaker opponents, when you know you can't beat someone, run away. Vital to succes is not being kill hungry. Don't stick around to land the last hit on an opponent when his teammates approach. Survival is your main goal. You can really help your team by shifting the enemies attention to you, distract them, kite them. This might make your team win. If you keep 5 enemies busy for 1 minute and die without killing any, you still provided a numerical advantage for your team.

Use an 18/21 build. I recommend using either 1h weapons or 1h/2h weapons. Those decrease your run speed less than a 2h or polearm of the same weight. Correct weapon choice, light armor, and an increase in str builds now, make 18/21 already an effective ninja build.

One problem when you are running around everywhere is cav, they will prey on you sometimes. Use the ~ key to see them coming. I even remapped it to E. Make sure you get your downblock ready and block cav until they get bored or until you backpeddle to cover or teammates. Stick around the map edge when flanking, cav won't bother you much or will become easy kills. You can get a throwing weapon or just carry a anti cav weapon. Even without wpf they are still effective, mostly because cav just gets scared away.

Ranged should only be attacked when there is only one of them. Dodge ranged by spasming your mouse around, not use sidesteps or jumps. Both will slow you down.

No idea why I suddenly felt like writing all this. Hope you give ninja builds another chance, but beware, its a hard path.

You might want to read the ninja guide http://ninjaempire.guildlaunch.com/gwiki/index.php?page_name=default&gid=170558. Or spectate good ninjas as Khorin or Thomek whenever they play. Wait, dont spectate khorin, he's suicidal.

[Digglez]

pick your fights better

[MrShovelFace]

the archetype of the ninja is so misunderstood
under their armor they are actually professional body builders and not hairless japanese boy-men

thing about agi builds is that the stupidest of people will be able to kill you because they have full 3+ heirloomed milanese plate with heavy gaunts and a flameberg

 honestly agi does nothing for pure melee aside from athletics (which doesnt matter much once your weapon is longer than 100)

[Digglez]

the archetype of the ninja is so misunderstood
under their armor they are actually professional body builders and not hairless japanese boy-men

thing about agi builds is that the stupidest of people will be able to kill you because they have full 3+ heirloomed milanese plate with heavy gaunts and a flameberg

 honestly agi does nothing for pure melee aside from athletics (which doesnt matter much once your weapon is longer than 100)

ya, nothing besides...

extra dmg to weapons with speed bonus
getting to dodge instead of having to parry
ability to play 100% offense by 'joust' attacks against slow opponents
being able to superspam fast weapons and feign like someone having a sezuire

high WPF DOES add dmg...combined with speed bonus and you can slice ppl up real good

[MrShovelFace]

ya, nothing besides...

extra dmg to weapons with speed bonus
getting to dodge instead of having to parry
ability to play 100% offense by 'joust' attacks against slow opponents
being able to superspam fast weapons and feign like someone having a sezuire

high WPF DOES add dmg...combined with speed bonus and you can slice ppl up real good

1. Athletics primary focus is acceleration, and quicker direction changes; not speed.

2. dodging only works if you have a longer weapon (aka not a katana) also dodging to the side makes you completely dependant on the opponent to fuck up. Generally speaking dodging is a completely unreliable tactic

3. down block. even if not you hit like a little girl

4. i would expect you to know that 90% of weapon speed comes from turning into attacks. agility hasnt given any bonus to attack speed for 3 months. WPF difference between 0 and 10 is only 70

5. at a test of 3 str, 0 ps, level 31, and 30 cut all against 10 armor

the difference between 10 wm and 0 wm is 70
the damage difference is 2
in addition, if a 10 ps 30 str character was able to achieve 180 wpf (impossible) the difference at 30 cut against 10 armor would only be 5 as opposed to no wm



in conclusion: the boons offered by agility are insignificant compared to the advantages given by strength

signed, a person who has played both a full agi and a full str for at least one gen each

but on the other hand ill guarantee you agility is more fun 

[Player_01]

Agi 2h or.. "NEENJA" build is quite worth it. (To me) It's just that the class has a higher skill roof and you have to pick and choose your fights much more intelligently. (Thanks to high agility, that's really easy.)

To me, the speed builds really are a supporting role in combat. Flanking the enemy team and assassinating high profile targets and archers are where "ninjas" shine. To be more proactive on the front lines you must MUST MUST practice manual blocking or your enemies are just gonna laugh at you when you die just as fast as you sprint.

Otherwise, I suggest respeccing to a higher strength/armor two-hander if you're having trouble and try a higher agility build when you're used to the game more.

[Thomek]

Good post Teeth! You have learned well.

I've written page up and page down on this, but the best argument is that it is more challenging and more fun. You have to love dying to teammates, to arrows, to get 1shotted by cav. For strict Ninjas you curse the close to nothing head armor. But you have to love it. These are the rules you live and die by. There is no more tweaking of armour, weapon or build combos. Just you and your katana.

It's a little game you play with yourself. Last gen before I took up throwing again, I always spawned with a bamboo in addition to kata, and made a rule for myself to never leave my bamboo behind. If I dropped it, I always picked it up and I got loads of kills with it, and some fubar situations because I didn't drop it. A modern classic is to drop it on the ground and pick it up just as a lancer thinks you are an easy victim.

If flanking, always bring heavy throwing or bamboo. Do the unexpected, use terrain to not get seen, hate the archers and kill them, facehug the shielders, trick the 2handers, kite half the enemy team and split them. Everything is possible with a Ninja build, it all just comes down to your skill, and you are constantly reminded of how much you suck. 

It's not recommended for nubs though, or KD ratio minmaxers. It is a great way to learn, think and get better though.

The mind is the armor.
(Without being clever you will get nowhere as a ninja. You are not going to be the mass battle hero. (Except Khorin who sometimes get's out of extremely hairy situations alive.. Create the situations you want to have, avoid the ones you won't win.)

good luck!

PS: Another enjoyable thing is the reactions from other players. Some get's scared like hell, omg ninjas style, some rage seriously, while others (good minmaxers) just laugh. That's why it's so satisfying to kill them from time to time.

(I'd also recommend an 18/21 if u dont have a mw katana. If you do, go 15/24  or troll around with 12/27, but don't expect to be very effective with the 12str one, although u will have fun. )

PS: Did I mention that you have to always block first? Even half the shielders outrange you.
PS2: oh.. And every kill you get as a Ninja is immensely satisfying.. Try it out.

[Siiem]

These are the rules you live and die by.

 

[Thomek]

Yes you die a lot. But it's way more satisfying to play like that, than to be a minmaxing whore like Siiem who played 15+ gens with a Danish Greatsword. How original.

[Siiem]

I only played 1 gen with a danish. Actually that is the same gen as I am on now!

[Digglez]

wow you guys must have some incredibly bad pings or timing if you cant outswing someone with your 160+ WPF.  I NEVER parry first, speed is MY advantage, I make the enemy parry and react to me and my speed, not the other way around.  If he does parry, I can just hop out of his swing range....rinse repeat.  Its called jousting.

[Ninja_Khorin]

Yeah. Ninja build is viable. Just takes a different sort of mindset, that I just don't have. I usually search out groupfights(as in me and the gentle caresses of my enemies) because they're the most fun and entertaining. But you can sometimes find them on the flanks aswell. Or I search out high profile players and duel them. And my 10-12 years of multiplayer experience has taught me to stay well away from teammates, atleast their damage range, and survive on my own. It's one of the reasons ninjas appealed to me. Can't get teamhit if there are no teammates close and from there it logically concludes that every damage you take is a personal failure, so you try and better yourself.

I've always played the 15/24 build, except now that I've stopped retiring, I'm not level 32 with 18/24.
Which is fun. Squishy, but fun(only got 1 IF). But then again, dying is to my mind a huge part of being a ninja. Every time you die you should strive to not make the same mistake again and every mistake should be fatal.