Armor: Effectiveness vs Melee and Ranged

[RandomDude]

Ok. Sheathable, 5 slots.

can i have 7 slots in my eq screen then?

[Vingnir the Wanderer]

Game balance, 'what your used to' aside,

The fact that anything other than a crossbow, or maybe a longbow, can actually do ANY damage to someone in plate/full helm/articulated gloves/metal encased greaves is, rediculous.

EA knows this, its why you cant blow up a tank with a rifle, in call of duty.




And call me a historic accuracy chocolate chip cookie or whatever, but as long as thats the case, this game is kinda silly.   

I dunno, I know someones gonna come in here, and say 'historical accuracy has nothing to do with gaming or crpg blah blah blah blah blah...'

Its not true. Sure the game has limitations, and concessions to them, but, the more ways you fit in simulated accuracy while honing balance, while its still fun, the better ANY game like this becomes.

So, if some math was added in the archery mechanics, that both made plate invulnerable to anything other than a cross or longbow, simulated semi-realistic penatration values on other armors, AND was balanced at the same time, well thats where things should be pointed towards.  As long as its still fun.

My 2 cents

 






 

[Dezilagel]

Regular values:

armor_soak_factor_against_cut       = 0.65
armor_soak_factor_against_pierce    = 0.5
armor_soak_factor_against_blunt     = 0.4

armor_reduction_factor_against_cut       = 1.6
armor_reduction_factor_against_pierce    = 1.1
armor_reduction_factor_against_blunt     = 1.3

extra_penetration flag:

armor_soak_factor_against_cut       = 0.78
armor_soak_factor_against_pierce    = 0.6
armor_soak_factor_against_blunt     = 0.48

armor_reduction_factor_against_cut       = 0.96
armor_reduction_factor_against_pierce    = 0.36 EDIT: Possible typo? [1.1*0.6=0.66]
armor_reduction_factor_against_blunt     = 0.78

Aah, there's the problem!

While the fact that armor is less effective against ranged is bs imho, ranged pierce damage seems to be absolutely lethal compared to its melee counterpart (much more so than the other dmg types).

But ranged pierce damage is fairly uncommon right? Restricted to the most expensive/extreme loadouts with compensating drawbacks that will drain your cash like.... Owait.

I pity the archers who traded away their bodkins.

(Stats snatched from marco1391's thread)

(click to show/hide)

SHAMELESS bump

[Leshma]

Make bodkins cut and problem solved

But no, 3000 ranged players killed 6000 people and half of those people were actually killed by 50 people so archery is considered underpowered...

[Duke]

Seriously, I've been stacking up on armor ... it allows me/others to sometimes take 5-6 hits in melee ... while ranged still bring me down in 2-3 shots if loomed (Or arbalest).

(edited your quote a bit for structure)

You're complaining about Arbalest killing you in 3 shots?.... Really?!

Most ranged hitting you is probably pierce damage, which has bonuses vs armor.
Most melee hitting you is probably cut damage, which does not have any bonuses vs armor.
If you survive 2 Arbalest shots, you should be thanking your lucky stars, not bitching about it.

[Dezilagel]

(edited your quote a bit for structure)

You're complaining about Arbalest killing you in 3 shots?.... Really?!

Most ranged hitting you is probably pierce damage, which has bonuses vs armor.
Most melee hitting you is probably cut damage, which does not have any bonuses vs armor.
If you survive 2 Arbalest shots, you should be thanking your lucky stars, not bitching about it.

An arbalest brings me down in 1 or 2 shots.

What I'm saying is that heavy, loomed bows 2-3 shot me, and I included the arbalest as a parenthesis since it also has that ability. What I basically wanted to do was to avoid a bow vs xbow discussion.

[Penitent]

shield

[Thucydides]

shield

ever had 2 archers crossfire you? shield sucks dick in that situation

[ThePoopy]

buff helmets, max head armor u can get is 60 while body armor is 72 (without looms), and then theres headshot bonus on that

[Teeth]

shield

No, just no. First of all, it costs points, now that would be worth it if a shield would be effective. As a 2h meleer with a shield you will have to put the shield away to fight, which is 80% of the time, after the initial run to the fray.

When youre not fighting missiles are pretty easy to dodge anyway, just spasm with your mouse. I mostly get hit while fighting, when I would have holstered my shield.

Also you can get caught off guard with your shield out at close range, which will grant the enemy a hit when you switch.

Overall a shield for arrows as a 2h is detrimental to your performance. Being a 1h shielder is just plainly boring.

Not even talking about this yet

ever had 2 archers crossfire you? shield sucks dick in that situation

[Tzar]

shield

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[Digglez]

everything was fine until they made bodkins change a bow's damage.  Longbow had a purpose and heavy armor users could could shrug off hits from other rinkedink bows but respected longbow & xbows

[Thucydides]

everything was fine until they made bodkins change a bow's damage.  Longbow had a purpose and you could shrug off hits from other rinkedink bows

this, before the damage change i only feared the heavy crossbows and longbow. Now freaking hornbows can three shot me >.>

[Adamar]

everything was fine until they made bodkins change a bow's damage.  Longbow had a purpose and heavy armor users could could shrug off hits from other rinkedink bows but respected longbow & xbows

Everything was fine for you! Ever tried developing an archer? I dont think so.

[Digglez]

Everything was fine for you! Ever tried developing an archer? I dont think so.

yes I did.  System was very well balanced before they messed it all up

You either went 1 of two routes

Fast accurate lower dmg shots against medium to low armored opponents

Slow but hard hitting armor piercing shots that would mess up heavy armored people


Sure a long bow can kill unarmored people, but its not as good as horn or rus bow at killing thems.  Thats the inherent balance, just like melee version of armor piercing weapons.  A pick is a great weapon to tear up armored opponents, but sword is by far better at slaughtering lightly armored ones.

Now the is completely no point to use a longbow, you can shoot fast AND bypass armor with stupid little bows.