Polearms....

[CaptainQuantum]

Well I don't know Muffin too well, but my point gets across still I think the best of poles' skills are as high as that of the best of 2hands, poles have Muffin and Dezi, 2hands have the best of native/crpg Phyrex,Bjord, Harlequin and the list goes on.

The most obvious reason to me for poles being OP, is that in native they were fine, poles vs 2 hands was a balanced thing even without taking advantage of polestun. Then for crpg poles don't get nerfed at all and almost every patch 2hands do. If they were balanced before they definately aren't now.

Kafein yes, but polearms and 2hands are made for the same thing, melee killing with no support role unlike the shield. So they should be equal.

Also I made the STF so I could test my "skill" level against that which I normally would do, doing aswel as normal with a scythe, peasant clothes, no polearm training (not much anyway), against the same skill level of people whilst tired is not normal. Something is wrong with polearms if all that hinderence still allows me to be as good as normal with my 2h. You can tell Phyrex and Harlequin are the most skilled because of how good their manual block skills and footwork is, they pretty much never miss a block and their deaths are generally only due to ranged. That said even Phyrex said poles are OP in TS, if he sees a problem against them theres definately an issue.

I can't seem to see why people don't find it remarkably strange that only none balance developer weapons are getting nerfs even though it's not necessary. A poll on the community recently showed that most people thought archery was in a good place (it was), then they nerf them anyway. How many threads have there been about xbows needing nerfed (deservingly, an arbalest can one shot me in a lordly black coat of plates) and still no nerf.

[Paul]

I hope you are trolling.

[Kafein]

Then for crpg poles don't get nerfed at all and almost every patch 2hands do.

Humm, yeah the last patch that was a 2h nerf was... let me think... in January ?

Kafein yes, but polearms and 2hands are made for the same thing, melee killing with no support role unlike the shield. So they should be equal.

Not really, 2h should be better for duelling. And they are, mainly because they have better animations. Poles should be better for formation fights, and anti-cav. They are good for group fights and anti-cav, but 2h are usually just as good. No pole is longer than a DGS thrust except the long spear and pike, and the animation doesn't last longer than it should for polearms. And greatswords outrange a heavy lance so there is little difference between those and a pike when it comes to the enemy cav behaviour : he avoids you. Horse rearing has no use when you can kill the horse and/or the rider in one thrust. Furthermore, 2h side swings often go through nearby teammates just like polearm overheads before WSE.

All this is balanced out with better raw stats for polearms.

Also I made the STF so I could test my "skill" level against that which I normally would do, doing aswel as normal with a scythe, peasant clothes, no polearm training (not much anyway), against the same skill level of people whilst tired is not normal. Something is wrong with polearms if all that hinderence still allows me to be as good as normal with my 2h.

I have a flamberge 24/15 alt and even though I have much more experience with cavalry, I do just as good. Try playing that polearm char longer to really assess it. Your k/d heavily depends on how the other players react towards you. If they recognise a good player, they will probably try to avoid duelling. If you just created a STF char however, people don't recognise you, assume you are a noob and go for the kill. That's why fake peasants are soo effective when they aren't known (well now that there aren't peasants anymore, most people know that a peasant is probably fake  )

You can tell Phyrex and Harlequin are the most skilled because of how good their manual block skills and footwork is, they pretty much never miss a block and their deaths are generally only due to ranged. That said even Phyrex said poles are OP in TS, if he sees a problem against them theres definately an issue.

I know Phyrex says poles are OP. DaveUKR said xbow weren't. I can't really tell the difference, and we all know what's going on with xbows.

I can't seem to see why people don't find it remarkably strange that only none balance developer weapons are getting nerfs even though it's not necessary. A poll on the community recently showed that most people thought archery was in a good place (it was), then they nerf them anyway. How many threads have there been about xbows needing nerfed (deservingly, an arbalest can one shot me in a lordly black coat of plates) and still no nerf.

Just like in all human groups, some devs are biaised, many are in between and some are not. ad hominem arguments don't help your cause.

[CaptainQuantum]

Actually on the balance between poles, I believe 2hand should be worse since they are shorted and therefore better in groups which is the way I find them to be. I do not keep track of dates of nerfs but the 2 hand nerfs are generally results of another change and are not explicitly stated. Poles and 2h anims are equal, poles have slightly glitchier animations but this has strengths in it being harder to detect and weaknesses. The flamberge costs 18k my gear costs less than a thousand gold, people on the duel server would have learned the fact I was good after the amount of time I spent dueling there. I beat a guy in plate without taking advantage of polestun or backpedalling (too much), he was a strength whore and no matter the skill of them they are always an issue since it takes me a lot of hits and then I make one mistake and die. With the scythe on the plate guy he couldn't even get in range for me to make a mistake, it led to plate << scythe.

The Phyrex saying poles are OP part, you don't get as good as Phyrex without learning to admit where you went wrong, he doesn't complain any more about anything due to him not making many mistakes. But still he does think poles are OP. With crossbows it's harder to see yourself if they are OP because you don't really get to see the value of the other classes from where you are in your cave/hide spot.

What I said about the devs, they may not be biased, I know Paul isn't. But it sure as hell is one heck of a coincidence since I saw no problems in native between poles to 2h balance, other than pole stun and stab speed on a 2h. Nerfing the stab on 2h was required, I agree, but it is not necessary to keep such a long stun on it, yet it lingers. Polestun is a required removal, yet Paul says the devs are too lazy, perhaps so, but why not be lazy on fixing the ground bounce or bunny jumping. One person complained the night before about bunny jumping and it gets an unrequired fix (archers needed that maneuverability to stand a chance against cav), yet people have been complaining about polestun for long before WSE and the devs delay it. I don't know anyone who cared about the floor having no bounce, it certainly never bothered me before.

Seems my University start date came just in time... a large break was inevitable now I get a forced one. Back to native, it's more balanced than crpg is at the moment anyway, with the complete rape of archery every patch, when I come back archers will be running in and jabbing there arrows into the targets and 2 handers will have had their block ability removed.

[Xant]

Well if Phyrex says poles are OP then why isn't Paul nerfing them already?!

Also lol @ native being balanced.

[sF_Guardian]

I can just agree with Quant.

Crpg has been the best mod for a long time, we have a great community and admins/devs ( Wookiemonstaa was smthin special ) did mostly very good work ( first repair patch and throwing nerf wasn´t ).
But now it seems like devs are no longer working together with the community and some buffs/nerfs seem irrational or/and not needed.

Its a shame how chadz´s very good work gets ruined !

There should be also a patch that fixes this annoyin polestun and the speed of the long halfted blade and glaive.

During the last weeks i played less and less Crpg and began to play other mods/games cuz Crpg is no fun anymore.
I hope that the devs listen to the guys that see this change and think about their way of "supporting" this mod.
If not Crpg will die in a few months .....



Sorry for my bad english, its not my native language

[CaptainQuantum]

Xant not balanced. More balanced, native balance is in the form of this class beats this class, even though the ease at which it is done is variable. At least if I feel like playing archer over there I don't feel like running over there with my arrows and poking them because it's faster  . But still native is more fun because the combat is faster and to manual block there you actually need to have skill, and of course duels between people don't last 10 minutes. Plus with university I don't have the time for crpg because it's not quite jump in and kill like it is in native.

[Xant]

Archers are ridiculously OP in native, which fucks up the balance altogether.

[Thucydides]

the balance in native is archers and shielders with some cav

[sF_Guardian]

So x-bow and pole is useless in native ?
Just 2h is useless there ( except maul ), but 2h is actually a fail class and only possible in Crpg.
Anyway native FEELS ways more balanced than Crpg and thats what im missin here ....

[Gurnisson]

Polearms are pretty much support/anti-cav only in native. Pikes, spears, lances and lawlpikes are pretty much everything that's being used there. Some guys use Glaive and Long Hafted Spiked Mace, but they're very rare. 2H is good on native, but the insane amount, and sheer power, of ranged (both bow and xbow) makes them pretty rare on the battlefield.

Also, native ain't balanced, because ranged is op there. The rate of fire is ludicrous and renders other classes completely useless at times.

[Snoozer]

i think your problem is with the backpaddle tactic not polearms. any weapon can be used to backpeddle if you have the agil for it its just that polearms are a little bit more easy then the other classes due to length but 2h isnt far behind it of course (i would not think 1h is capable of backpeddling but im talking out of my ass on that one)

and gla is devastatingly suck ass. y u ask?  it was  MY MAIN NATIVE WEP I WOULD KNOW!!!!i devastated entire teams with it always having bare minimum 3/1 k/d usually 5/1. idk what they did to it but its fucked in the ass.AND IT CANT STOP HORSES WTF!!!! i was always in full hascarl armour with that  . end rant/

why use a gla when you can use a poleaxe thats longer and stops horses anyways

and wtf are you talking about "balanced classes" in crpg there werent classes it ws cavalry infantry and archer. and EVERYONE was rolling with a pole arm gla(norde) glaive (rhodoc)bardiche(viegars).the only time they weren't was swadia and rhodoc cus they had good swords and saltinate sucked ass to me all they had good was war spear

^atleast thats what i remembered but its been awhile sence i played native

[Phew]

I have been a pole user for 5 gens, and can assure you I don't rely on the "polestun" mechanic at all. I use a slow weapon (90 speed) with low WPF (120ish) in fairly heavy armor (Rus Scale), so even if I get the full 1s stagger animation (only 50% of the time on overheads that strike the head, the rest of the time it's the same 0.6s stagger animation that everyone else gets), that's still not enough time to get a 'free' hit in (I have about 1.25s between swings I think).

I'd trade this 50% chance for a 0.2s-0.4s longer stagger animation for the 2H animations/reach any day of the week, and so would most other pole users.

[Vibe]

I think I minor decrease to polestun length would be a good step towards balance.

[Phew]

Last time devs posted server stats, 2H were responsible for ~40% of kills, Pole ~20%. What do you think that ratio will be if they nerf polestun without enhancing poles in some other way?

Like I said, I'm not attached to the polestun mechanic, because in 1v1 it provides zero benefit unless you have a Masterwork Spear and 180 wpf or something. Your opponent can always still block after the stagger animation is over. It's handy for teamwork purposes, and makes sense since poles should be superior support weapons.

Personally, I say make stagger duration a function of weapon weight and/or damage, regardless of type. A long spear overhead shouldn't call the 1s stagger animation, because it barely hurts. Get hit by a Great Long Axe to the skull? That SHOULD daze you a bit. Then tweak the pole animations so they are less awkward, obvious, and sluggish. Swinging a 2H feels so fluid compared to the robot dance that is swinging a pole.