Author Topic: Canceling draw when jumping  (Read 9573 times)

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Offline CaptainQuantum

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Re: Canceling draw when jumping
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2011, 11:15:12 am »
+2
Jump shooting was never advantageous to an archer unless they are last ranged alive, jumping forces a definite landing position so any ranged will aim there and hit. I don't think this will be a full end to kiting, but it did look retarded, this is coming from a guy who did archery for 3 generations.

Not realistic no, but that never has been the way this game is balanced, it was instead that archery could kite melee around the map. The way I used to play archery was; if the melee got to me and they keep me in range, well done they have beat me. I would then just manual block until I saw another chance to fire an arrow.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 11:17:11 am by CaptainQuantum »

Offline Damatacus_ATS

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Re: Canceling draw when jumping
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2011, 11:17:12 am »
+1
Yes, I can understand you being quite mad for not being able to kite and shoot at chasing infantry forever.
I am not a kiting archer, I use a strongbow and I carry a mace. Anyone who plays with me can attest that I am not a kiting archer.

Offline Gristle

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Re: Canceling draw when jumping
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2011, 11:18:07 am »
+1
The devs constantly say they do not make changes based on realism. Based on that, I do question why I can no longer jump and fire my crossbow, but I can jump and swing my sword.

Can you fix something more important, like lolstabs, next?

Offline CaptainQuantum

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Re: Canceling draw when jumping
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2011, 11:18:19 am »
+1
Yes but this is a nerf to kiting archers, not a full one, I will still see people just turning and running then shooting which is more of an issue.

There is no problems with lolstabs, and jumping is necessary for melee to get out of bad situations. IMO polestun should go next.

Offline MrShine

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Re: Canceling draw when jumping
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2011, 11:21:27 am »
+5
I'll give you the realism thing, but consider recent history.

Slot changes implemented: Longbow & Rus bow are 2 slots
Result: Horn bow & other 1 slot bow users can still be fairly effective with a 1 slot melee weapon, but 2-slotter archers go hammer sidearm with very low offensive capabilities.  Archers less likely to engage in melee; more 'runners' as a result.

Arrow break chance/cost increased: 1 Stack of bodkins costs ~350 gold to repair & one breaks nearly every round
Result: High tier arrows become more difficult to maintain in a loadup and is either compensated by (even) less armor or lower tier arrows. Overall archery damage slightly lower as a result.

Missile speed decreased: It becomes harder to high long range targets due to increased 'lead time' for arrows.
Result: Overall reliable 'hit zone' for archers decreased.  More misses at range, less chances to effectively hit a closing enemy.  Overall archery damage slightly decreased.

Cut damage change: Cut damage does reduced damage against armor, but bounces less.
Result: Non longbow archers get overall damage nerf.  Consequently more archers drop 1 slot cut bows in favor of heavier cut 2 slot rus bows or (even more common) pierce 2 slot longbows (this means more archers have 0 slot hammers). 

Now:
Bunnyhopping removed: Archers can no longer draw their bow while jumping.
Result: Kiting abilities of archers nerfed; less shots fired by fleeing archers.


So let's recap:
Archers pigeonholed into having 2 slot bows for effectiveness, resulting in terrible melee capabilities.
Archers have a harder time hitting things at range, resulting in more running for survival.
Archers unable to draw bow while jumping, resulting in less effective running for survival.

And people wonder why archers hang out on rooftops?  People rage at archers running and not engaging in melee unless it's a last resort?

Oh yeah, isn't there a lot of ladder drama going on right now on the forums, with people wanting placeable ladders in battle to be removed (which as a stand alone item I'm in favor of) and others saying all in-game ladders should be removed?  Wonder what class that's directed at  :rolleyes:

There's a reason I traded my MW Horn bow and my MW Bodkin Arrows away and am probably not going to go archer again for awhile.  The nerfs (past present and anticipated future) make it a very underwhelming class.  Like cav, archers will get most of their kills by preying on peasants and the daft 'walk in straight line' melee players, while smart players are much more challenging to take down.  I'm not saying you can't be effective as an archer, but when people get killed at range and rage about archery they probably don't realize it took 2 or 3 different archers to kill him and probably wasn't the work of one guy machine-gunning from somewhere.

I seem to recall Swalker made a challenge for someone to start a pure archer and see if they can retire boasting a positive KD.  I'd love to see someone take that up. I'd do it but I'm not into masochism.

E:
I am not a kiting archer, I use a strongbow and I carry a mace. Anyone who plays with me can attest that I am not a kiting archer.
I can vouch for this: Damatacus is a beast in melee. Maybe dropping out of melee to fire a shot or two, but certainly not "a runner".
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 11:23:44 am by MrShine »
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Offline CaptainQuantum

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Re: Canceling draw when jumping
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2011, 11:22:50 am »
+1
I support roof top camping archers, so long as there is a ladder to reach them, as in the crpg rules. And don't forget a lot of classes got nerfs, 2hands especially.

Offline Jacko

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Re: Canceling draw when jumping
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2011, 11:23:05 am »
+1
This affects crossbowmen as well, as in, there is a delay after you jump which prevents you from shooting. Funny thing, you can still "air reload" as a crossbowmen.. Which I guess is nice.
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Offline CaptainQuantum

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Re: Canceling draw when jumping
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2011, 11:24:38 am »
+1
yeah I guess jump shotting with a crossbow isn't so much of an issue. Unless you unintendedly shoot me in the face again!

Offline Gristle

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Re: Canceling draw when jumping
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2011, 11:25:13 am »
0
There is no problems with lolstabs
The fact that it exists is the problem.

Quote
jumping is necessary for melee to get out of bad situations.

OK, you can still jump out of that bad situation. You just can't attack while doing so (just like archers).

Offline Kingtrisp

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Re: Canceling draw when jumping
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2011, 11:25:31 am »
+1
I don't use a longbow, never have. It is not about shooting while in the air, that never worked. Jumping and turning around allowed you to narrow your reticule while still moving, now you have to stop and wait about 3 sec for your reticule to narrow. This is significant, as 3 sec can make a big difference at times. And, yes I am mad, but not just about this, its all the nerfs all the time, that I hate.

I quite obivously meant irl jumping around with bows and shiz but never mind...

And jumping and hitting with plate or heavy chainmail together with a big polearm/2h or a heavy shield and 1h is better and more realistic than jumping with a bow?  :shock:

Oh comeon guys, for once in your life turn your brains on and make some thing equal in this game. Stop complaining about realism etc etc etc if you just want it the way that you get most profit by your so-called "realism"  :rolleyes:

Being able to jump in mail/plate is quite realistic... full plate would be a problem due to weight however!!
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Offline Xant

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Re: Canceling draw when jumping
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2011, 11:27:13 am »
+3
The fact that it exists is the problem.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, bro.
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Offline CaptainQuantum

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Re: Canceling draw when jumping
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2011, 11:29:13 am »
+1
Xant's epic comments :) Lolstab is not an issue, 2hand is retarded with stabs now especially with floor bounce. The recovery time on a stab is so long now if you get overhead chambered it can't be blocked. Also with floor bounce missed stabs hitting the ground will stop you from blocking the next swing unless you dodge it.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Canceling draw when jumping
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2011, 11:31:13 am »
+1
This probably means there will be even more xbowmen than archers in the future which is bad. I can avoid most archers and smack them in the face but xbowers I can't.

Xbow needs a serious nerf but as we all know it, ain't gonna happen anytime soon...
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 11:32:24 am by Leshma »

Offline Gristle

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Re: Canceling draw when jumping
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2011, 11:35:57 am »
0
Crossbows also cannot be fired while jumping anymore.

Offline MaHuD

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Re: Canceling draw when jumping
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2011, 11:58:32 am »
+3
Jump + shoot was silly anyway, let's be honest.

But to rage because archers run away from you, seriously?
What are they supposed to do, just stand still and wait for you tin cans to finaly reach their position and whack 'm with your polearm/2h ?

Agility melee guys kill archers
STR melee guys shouldn't. You are Shocktroopers, at the front of the attack, taking that damage and killing the enemy infantry.
You should not be super duper and be able to kill, CAV, Archers, Xbows AND other infantry.