Cavalry is clearly way overpowered

[masasa]

Just lol dude, but it doesnt surprise me you dont want cav nerfed, your in the GK clan. You live by the op'ness.

2h rapes cav ? lets see..... cav got better reach, better movement and faster movement speed. 2h got........... nothing ?

1h wins against cav ? dude are you shitting me ? f the cav knows what he is doing its very hard. they got better reach, better movement and faster movement speed again. 1h and shield got....... nothing ?

Archers rapes cav ? That depends on the situation, if its on a roof, ofc you wont hit archer. But if its on a flat gorund, the archer is quite fucked. its not easy to dodge the cav if the cav knows where the archer is goin. same way around, if the archer knows where the cav is goin, its not easy for the cav to hit him.

Have u ever played as infantry ? and cav is not a 1v1 class, so comparing it as a 1v1 class is stupid.

I have played 2h,shielder,thrower,x-bower,lancer and currently 1h cav. And I'm not shitting you, honestly, go try it in duel servers and you will get owned vs good inf player no matter what class they are.

I agree that cav is not 1vs1 class, it sucks at it. In other words it is not overpowered compared to other classes, so what is the point of nerfing it? Sounds to me people just want to nerf it because Cav gets all the easy kills and scoreboard fame.

[Fartface]

yeah thats right instead of improving ur aweraness or adjust to the cav.
les whine to the devs to get it nerfed because thats the way how its supposed to be.

[Siiem]

yeah thats right instead of improving ur aweraness or adjust to the cav.
les whine to the devs to get it nerfed because thats the way how its supposed to be.

Well thats what they did with 2hers and archers did it when they got nerfed...

[_GTX_]

Well thats what they did with 2hers and archers did it when they got nerfed...

yup like 4 times nerfed 2hs ?

[_GTX_]

I have played 2h,shielder,thrower,x-bower,lancer and currently 1h cav. And I'm not shitting you, honestly, go try it in duel servers and you will get owned vs good inf player no matter what class they are.

I agree that cav is not 1vs1 class, it sucks at it. In other words it is not overpowered compared to other classes, so what is the point of nerfing it? Sounds to me people just want to nerf it because Cav gets all the easy kills and scoreboard fame.

You dont get it do you ? its not a 1v1 class, its a battle class. Which means comparing it 1v1 against 1v1 classes, is not how you find out if its op or not.

[Tzar]

Cav is easy mode and allways have been just increase the price on horses so players cant take em out for a spin 24/7

[Siiem]

Cav is easy mode and allways have been just increase the price on horses so players cant take em out for a spin 24/7

No, something like drastically reducing their turn radius and turn speed combined with slower acceleration and a HP buff would maybe work? Could be tested I wish

[masasa]

You dont get it do you ? its not a 1v1 class, its a battle class. Which means comparing it 1v1 against 1v1 classes, is not how you find out if its op or not.

I admit I don't get what you mean. You tell me what makes Cav overpowered without comparing it to other classes.

[Overdriven]

Lol Leshma...possibly the loudest anti-cav lobbyist out there.

2h rapes cav ? lets see..... cav got better reach, better movement and faster movement speed. 2h got........... nothing ?

1h wins against cav ? dude are you shitting me ? f the cav knows what he is doing its very hard. they got better reach, better movement and faster movement speed again. 1h and shield got....... nothing ?

Archers rapes cav ? That depends on the situation, if its on a roof, ofc you wont hit archer. But if its on a flat gorund, the archer is quite fucked. its not easy to dodge the cav if the cav knows where the archer is goin. same way around, if the archer knows where the cav is goin, its not easy for the cav to hit him.

Have u ever played as infantry ? and cav is not a 1v1 class, so comparing it as a 1v1 class is stupid.

Ok...I have played every class except thrower and I can say you don't know what you're talking about.

2h: Currently because of the lance angle nerf (most of Leshmas nerfs are for lancing), 2h outrange lancers with a lolstab. Lancers can no longer strike side on, meaning 2h simply have to spin, and because of the extra length on a lolstab and the way the lance is held (even when thrusting), they will outrange even a heavy lance. Go and test it on a server with a friend, it works every time. Hell cav struggle against even a heavy bastard sword because of the lolstab. The speed bonus working against the cav means that the lolstab will likely take out the horse to.

1h shielder. All they have to do is block with the shield. You can jump out the way of a couch lance and then thrust your sword into the horse as it charges away. Practice it on duel...it works.

Archer: Actually...I was fighting Nelo earlier today and I have to say archers can quite easily take out cav. Nelo's longbow with 6 PD could 1 shot my Champion courser because of the speed bonus. The problem is, most archers these days use horn bows which will take 3-4 arrows to kill a horse. But even from my experience as a downed HA, taking cav 1 on 1 is no problem really. You don't need to aim, you simply draw and keep moving and the horse is such a big target you can't miss and trust me, I've had it worse than any archer out there. Ever tried being a downed HA in the middle of the enemy cav? Not fun, but I've managed to screw over many lancers simply by letting them get in each others way, moving constantly whilst shooting, no need to aim at all.

Average cav will lose 1 vs 1 to the majority of average players from other classes. But it is a battle class. And it is designed for backstabbing. The best cav players move constantly and never stop. They pick the players that aren't paying attention and take them out, if they miss, they don't get locked into 1vs1 but move on. That's why the best players are dangerous. However, the vast majority of cav are average players and easy to take out.

Arguing that cav top the servers constantly is utter bull. There are a few very good cav, just as there are of every class. The majority of cav stay in the average K/D area, amongst the average infantry. I know, because I keep track of how the cav on my team is doing seeing as I ride my horse constantly.

The guys who want to nerf cav are just butt hurt and can't take the fact that they actually have to pay a little more attention on the battlefield. And yes, I play battle enough as infantry/archer to know what it's like. It's not hard to keep an eye out for cav at all and play it smart.

No, something like drastically reducing their turn radius and turn speed combined with slower acceleration and a HP buff would maybe work? Could be tested I wish

I believe it was said a while ago that the item balancers said no to this. And I say no as well...there's so much ranged flying around most maps now that you already get shot off your horse if you don't play very smart. Making horses slower ect would make this near impossible. Besides, it won't change anything otherwise.

I still say there needs to be an attitude shift in EU. People need to pay attention to horses. Archers need to shoot them as priority ect. If I'm playing my dedicated archer or downed HA, I always make sure to shoot the enemy cav, just as I always make it my priority when I'm on my horse.

It's a fact.

My suggestions how to fix this:

Idea number one:

- remove couching from heavy/light/regular lance, give that ability only to jousting lances
- nerf the speed of all horses by 4 points
- nerf manouver of all horses by 2 points

Idea number two:

- shorten the duration of couched lance by half or up the needed speed for that so that only people with super fast loomed horses can couch on terrain which isn't completely flat
- nerf the speed of all horses by 4 points
- nerf manouver of all horses by 2 points

Idea number three:

- raising riding skill per 6 agi

Something has to be done, it's up to you guys what.

And please listen what people have to say cause none of you balancers play this mod enough to know what the current situation is like.

Speed + manoeuvre already got nerfed once. Lance angle reduced. Strength of the lance strike isn't as good. Loads lobbied for cav to be nerfed once...it was nerfed. Now you're doing it again. And honestly there's no real reason to. All lances should couch. And raising the riding level to 6 agi is just retarded.

Anyway, it is a source of great amusement to see a good cavalry player rampage through an enemy team. Some of us in GK can never understand how we can watch Torben, Kerrigan, Leed ect dart in and out getting kill after kill and no one pays them the closest bit of attention. Somehow those guys seem invisible to the enemy. They know how to get the unaware players. But it's shocking just how clueless a lot of infantry are. Maybe because I play in a cav clan I know when I play my alts to keep an eye on cavalry a lot of the time. But it seems most people don't.

[Thomek]

Heeere we go.

Everything imaginable has been said in this discussion so many times.. Here's 2 common answers to the cav whiners.

1. Get some awareness.
There is simply so much shit flying around and players doing stuff, that in an infantry melee, even the best most inhuman 12y olds can't have the kind of awareness required to look behind for some cav 100m away. (Takes about 4 seconds for him to close the distance). Around corners, there are situations where you've got no chance against a couched lance. We all knows how it is, the cav and all infantry.

Battle produces chaos. Cav pray on it. Get some awareness is just a retarded argument, although true as well. The awareness of cRPG players won't increase 1 year after it was launched.

2. Weak in 1vs1.
   a. Cav don't need to fight a 1vs1. So this argument is invalid in battle
   b. Cav in stead waits or moves on until there is a 2vs1 advantage.
        Cav bumps, other cav stabs, couches or slashes.
        Cav bumps, other infantry attacks.

IMO cav should not be harmless little girls, but there should be a greater risk involved, since they can so easily run away from a hairy situation.

If you nerfed maneuverability, you would have to see more active cooperation from them, like the first cav bumps the second couches. No more soloing waiting around for a player to engage something else then storm in. Give them more HP so they can survive more arrows and flying shit, but not avoid it like they do now. Also with less maneuverability, infantry could choose smaller hills and cav would not be so powerful there.

Also, I said this in january:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1386.msg19865.html#msg19865

[Overdriven]

Heeere we go.

Everything imaginable has been said in this discussion so many times.. Here's 2 common answers to the cav whiners.

1. Get some awareness.
There is simply so much shit flying around and players doing stuff, that in an infantry melee, even the best most inhuman 12y olds can't have the kind of awareness required to look behind for some cav 100m away. (Takes about 4 seconds for him to close the distance). Around corners, there are situations where you've got no chance against a couched lance. We all knows how it is, the cav and all infantry.

Battle produces chaos. Cav pray on it. Get some awareness is just a retarded argument, although viable in some circumstances.

2. Weak in 1vs1.
   a. Cav don't need to fight a 1vs1. So this argument is invalid in battle
   b. Cav in stead waits or moves on until there is a 2vs1 advantage.
        Cav bumps, other cav stabs, couches or slashes.
        Cav bumps, other infantry attacks.

IMO cav should not be harmless little girls, but there should be a greater risk involved, since they can so easily run away from a hairy situation.

If you nerfed maneuverability, you would have to see more active cooperation from them, like the first cav bumps the second couches. No more soloing waiting around for a player to engage something else then storm in. Give them more HP so they can survive more arrows and flying shit, but not avoid it like they do now. Also with less maneuverability, infantry could choose smaller hills and cav would not be so powerful there.

1. Answer: Stay with you're team.

That's the best solution really. Staying in a group means that some of you can focus on melee whilst some can focus on other things. I've found it works wonders when playing as infantry or my archer. The problem is 99.9% of crpg players want to be lone heroes and so become easy targets, especially when they are in a melee separated from their team.

2. I don't see how this differs from any other class. The vast majority of deaths in battle are in 2vs1 situations at least. You frequently get large groups of guys taking on a much smaller group. No different really. There's rarely a situation in the middle of a battle where there's calm all over and 2 people can fight 1 vs 1. It just so happens that cav can move between these instances faster. But honestly, the amount of ranged crap flying around means you should be off your horse if archers are sensible.

Take the best archers like Blackbow ect. They will shoot for cavalry...I hate playing in Pecores because of Blackbow. He always aims for the horses/you whilst you're on a horse. More archers need to do that.

Pfft you get that kind of cooperation anyway, usually by accident mind you. The problem is, cavalry is fast moving. It's difficult to keep track of each other as your moving. Unless you're on TS, it's pretty much impossible. It's not like an infantry class in that sense. Everything happens at a much greater speed.

O and the final balancing argument. My horse costs 20k. I'm paying for the speed with my courser. That's what it's for. I don't want it to have more armour and HP. I'm perfectly happy with it going down to 2-3 arrows because I can move quickly and most archers are retarded. Cavalry pay for the privelage. Guess what...you can too if you like!

[Thucydides]

LOL JUST LOL.

Watch me grab  pike and take on 3 cav at once, Cav is so nerfed its hilarious.

FACT: i had a 13:4 K:D:R naked on a sumpter, with 2 riding. Doesn't matter HOW hard you nerf cav you will always do well in it if you're smart. BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE DUMB FUCKS.

The only thing you can do about it, is buff horse noise. This will eliminate the retarded stealth fighter jet coursers.

[Overdriven]

LOL JUST LOL.

Watch me grab  pike and take on 3 cav at once, Cav is so nerfed its hilarious.

FACT: i had a 13:4 K:D:R naked on a sumpter, with 2 riding. Doesn't matter HOW hard you nerf cav you will always do well in it if you're smart. BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE DUMB FUCKS.

The only thing you can do about it, is buff horse noise. This will eliminate the retarded stealth fighter jet coursers.

True...I've had some pretty good K/D's on a sumpter and poor HA accuracy. Infantry just doesn't know how to combat cavalry, even a horse that barely runs faster than they do. It's amusing.

The problem with the horse noise isn't how loud they are. They are loud enough...you can hear cavalry on the other side of the map. It's that you don't have directional sounds in warband. And that's an engine issue and something crpg can't change.

[Thucydides]

True...I've had some pretty good K/D's on a sumpter and poor HA accuracy. Infantry just doesn't know how to combat cavalry, even a horse that barely runs faster than they do. It's amusing.

The problem with the horse noise isn't how loud they are. They are loud enough...you can hear cavalry on the other side of the map. It's that you don't have directional sounds in warband. And that's an engine issue and something crpg can't change.

i don't know, personally i never hear the cav galloping towards me even though IRL i'd fucking FEEL IT AS THE EARTH SHAKES

[Overdriven]

i don't know, personally i never hear the cav galloping towards me even though IRL i'd fucking FEEL IT AS THE EARTH SHAKES

Hmm, with my speakers I can always hear cavalry. No matter where they are on the map, and that's just as much of a problem because you don't know how far/close they are  But yeah, that's a fault in the Warband engine, nothing crpg can do.