Ironflesh? o.0 [Need Explanation Please]

[Miley]

So, what's with the new ironflesh? Some people were telling me it was useless, and I don't know. They were saying stuff about mitigation, whatever that is. Can someone explain, please?

[John]

I haven't heard anything about the function of Ironflesh changing.  Should just be 2 extra hitpoints per point.

[Gorath]

Ok.
IF = +2 HP per point.

Heavy armor + IF = good choice
Light armor + IF = waste

Reason being is that when that 2her is hitting you for 40 + PS level In light armor that extra 10-20 HP won't really help you (Yeah you could MAYBE survive with a black HP bar if you have a high IF level, but doubtful).  However when you're in heavy armor that mitigates 50% or so of the damage, those extra 10-20HP account for quite a bit (in the most basic sense they become 15-30+ hp).

[Miley]

Ok.
IF = +2 HP per point.

Heavy armor + IF = good choice
Light armor + IF = waste

Reason being is that when that 2her is hitting you for 40 + PS level In light armor that extra 10-20 HP won't really help you (Yeah you could MAYBE survive with a black HP bar if you have a high IF level, but doubtful).  However when you're in heavy armor that mitigates 50% or so of the damage, those extra 10-20HP account for quite a bit (in the most basic sense they become 15-30+ hp).

So, is that new? If it is new, then why wasn't that the case in pre-patch?

[Gorath]

So, is that new? If it is new, then why wasn't that the case in pre-patch?

It was always that way Miley.  lol
IF hasn't changed in what it does.  It's always been better with heavy armor and meh in light armor.

[panderson]

People used to claim that it was useless in heavy armor because you had more hitpoints with heavy armor anyway.  However, they were just misguided.

Look at it in terms of effective hitpoints.  The higher percentage that you can deflect via armor, the more valuable each hitpoint becomes.  Hence, IF becomes better.

[Miley]

Well, I'm semi-confused. Thanks, anyways. Lol. :]

[Rumblood]

Well, I'm semi-confused. Thanks, anyways. Lol. :]

Let me try math with completely made up numbers:

Let's say that without armor you have 10hp's and someone is going to hit you with 13 damage. You would die. Get 1 point in IF and now you have 12hp's. You still die from 13 damage.
Now with x armor you have 10hp's and same guy hits for 13 damage. You have enough armor to mitigate 3 hp's off that strike and so get hit for 10hp's and die. Now add in 1 point in IF and you have 12 hp's. That's still below the 13, but your armor soaks up damage and this time you live though the attack with 2hp's.

I get the feeling thats not quite right either, but its close.

That's why it is more effective in armor, but it isn't USELESS. But it also illustrates why we can't suddenly let IF give you 10hp's or something. At the low end, yes it seems just fine, but as armor increases, so does the effectiveness of IF and so the balance can only be nudged a bit at a time.

[Miley]

Let me try math with completely made up numbers:

Let's say that without armor you have 10hp's and someone is going to hit you with 13 damage. You would die. Get 1 point in IF and now you have 12hp's. You still die from 13 damage.
Now with x armor you have 10hp's and same guy hits for 13 damage. You have enough armor to mitigate 3 hp's off that strike and so get hit for 10hp's and die. Now add in 1 point in IF and you have 12 hp's. That's still below the 13, but your armor soaks up damage and this time you live though the attack with 2hp's.

I get the feeling thats not quite right either, but its close.

That's why it is more effective in armor, but it isn't USELESS. But it also illustrates why we can't suddenly let IF give you 10hp's or something. At the low end, yes it seems just fine, but as armor increases, so does the effectiveness of IF and so the balance can only be nudged a bit at a time.

Ok, that's what I thought when I got it. It adds 2 HP. That's what I wanted. Thanks.

[Trael]

So, is that new? If it is new, then why wasn't that the case in pre-patch?

i guess answer your asking there is: becouse with upkeep heavy armor is rarer.

leads to people running with lower armor --> if not being as usefull as before (for reasons told by all other posters.

[panderson]

You kinda missed the point, so let me explain it with fake math and exaggerated numbers.  The general theme is that IF gets better as you put on better armor.

Lets claim that IF gives you 4 hitpoints per level  Lets say you put on armor that decreases damage by 25% (light armor).  Each level of iron flesh would really give you 5 effective hitpoints (4 x 1.25) since you gain 25% due to your armor. 

If you wore heavier armor that decreased damage by 50%, 4 points from IF would be equal to 6 points base (4 x 1.5). 

Basically, the higher your armor, the more valuable each hitpoint becomes.  Hence, more armor makes IF more valuable.

[Mouse]

Many people like to believe that damage is constant. If that was the case, IF with light and medium armor would be mostly useless. Damage is indeed constant, but armor is randomized so that it protects with between (I think) 50% and 100% of its value. This effectively randomizes the damage you take, which means that iron flesh is more useful with medium armors and against cut damage (which suffers the most variation in damage output) than people think it is. You only need 1 HP to stay alive, and having 10 extra HP means extra chances that the RNG won't kill you.

That said, I still believe IF giving +2 HP per skill point is a little underpowered. +3 HP per point would help, but I think they should actually try making it +4 HP per point and see how that works out. It would make the decision between strength vs agility tougher for a lot of people.

[Torp]

actually, its not better in heavy armor, the percentage of extra life is still the same.

If you wear heavy armor, you might be able to survive 11 hits instead of 10
in lgiht armor you would be able to survive 1,1 instead of 1 (yes, i know you cant make 0,1 hit, but you know what i mean)

The lgiht armor guy already chose to die quick, but this gives him a little extra life, and the same percentage extra life as an armored guy, and mgiht let him survive another horsebump or something.

[Kocik_4th]

I have 11 Ironflesh and i dont die with 3 arrows on me with naked. It's really good. With armors, I dont die with headshot, i can run with an arrow in my head. People's hps are between 30-60 and i have 94 hp. But I dont tink every1 can play with 3 agility


Look at my avatar to see arrow on my head

[Anhy]

I hope for prudence of administrators. Also that raise stat Ironflesh... As as a matter of fact not who doesn't swing it plainly. And if and remains, sense of it stat? It is possible to clean simply it then....
Though I would raise it... Also we will tell 1 a point it +2-2.5 to HP and +1-1.5 to the Armor (perhaps all parts of a body). So there would be a sense to raise it we will tell to 8 and to have not a bad increase at 16-20 HP and 12 Armor to a head to 12 body and 12 feet. As a matter of fact, it would become excellent stat for tanks, shield users and Otec_Saveliy =)