24/15 vs 21/18? Can't choose.

[Christo]

Alrighty, so I masterworked my weapon. Time to go from 18/18 to something else, I feel kinda underpowered damage-wise.

I'm still in leveling progress, so I've been thinking. Which build would benefit me the most? But I can't really decide.

Here are the two builds, I'll try to list some pro-s and cons to each.

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 24
Agility: 15
Hit points: 69
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 5
Power Strike: 8
Shield: 0
Athletics: 5
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 5
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 147
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1

The obvious pro would be the 8 Power Strike, I mean, whoa. It would deal 16% more damage than my 6PS build.
Also, those extra hit points are lovely. Thing is that the ATH might be not enough, but I'll go back to this later.

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 21
Agility: 18
Hit points: 64
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 4
Power Strike: 7
Shield: 0
Athletics: 6
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 155
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1

So, the obvious pro here is that I'd get the 6ATH what I'm used to, but I'd only get 7PS.

What do you think, which would be better for a player who uses the Elegant? Yeah sure, 8PS kicks ass, but is the loss of one ATH acceptable with a short weapon like that?

Also, it would be handy to know how much speedbonus or whatever I'd get with that extra ATH.

-

[rustyspoon]

Honestly the differences between those are so slight it doesn't matter too much. 5 athletics is more than enough for pretty much anything. That being said, I prefer 6 on my polearm build 'cause it makes it easier to keep people at my axe's sweet spot.

With 8 ps you're doing like an extra 3 points of damage per swing. Since the elegant is the weakest poleaxe, perhaps you need that extra damage? You also don't need 6 WM unless you're wearing black plate or something.

[Christo]

Hmm.

You are so right.. my Elegant is the weakest of the Poleaxes, yet it's the most expensive Polearm in the game.

Uber WTF, I'd love to see a buff on this weapon, or a lower price.

Build wise, you say that differences aren't that much, but it still does make a difference having that extra ath. Hmm.

I might try both builds sometime. Then go with the one I prefer. That's the simplest imo.

But keep the info coming, it never hurts. :3

[espooo]

Go for the 21/18.
I honestly prefer the faster swing. Also, since you are using the Elegant Poleaxe, more WPF in your weapon will provide you with a chance to chain polestun.
Also, I can keep up with some archers.

[Cepeshi]

5athl is cool, 6 athl is even cooler, some archers have that aswell, so you might actually be able to chase em

Anyways, 24/15 or 21/18 gives like one hit difference in order to kill, and with more athl you can achieve higher speedbonus, hence higher dmg aswell. Was sporting 24/15 for quite some time, was awesome, good survivability, decent speed and nice damage. Last gen i went 21/18, dmg comparable, higher athletics help in cav dodging and stuff, and i doubt i will go something else in any close time

[Nehvar]

I've done 18/21, 21/18 and 24/15 builds on my two-hander and I have to say I like the 24/15 build the least.  Too damn slow for my short weapons and I often find myself at the mercy of enemy cavalry.  If 21/18 or 24/15 are your options then I recommend 21/18.

[v/onMega]

Balanced builds are the way to go, mostly.

You have no crushthrough weapon.
Elegant does okay damage.
You sport heavy armor from what I know.

In your case 21/18 might be the ideal build (simply nothing wrong with it)

About the dmg.
I play 15 / 24 this gen.
Got heraldic tabard / plate mittens on lordly + mw dgs.
Survivability is awesome due to new soak values + i teach myself again to hit the opponents heads whenever its possible... ;-) (i miss my 21/21 lvl 33 though xD)

The right build is something that mostly happens in your head ;-)

[rustyspoon]

One thing about speed bonus though; it's not going to be that great wearing armor that heavy even with 6 athletics. My killing power improved tremendously when I dropped my armor weight. You also don't need as much WM then. I only use 3 WM on my polearm guy and wearing medium  and a 90 speed weapon I never get outspammed. I can still also chainstun by circling around slow opponents.

WPF just doesn't do much for swing speed as shown in this chart I stole from Walt:

(click to show/hide)

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So the difference between 130 WPF and 150 is like 0.01 seconds per swing. You only need high WPF if you are an archer, a hybrid or you wear heavy armor. Also, I've been successfully dueling people with 130 wpf and the long maul (70 speed) so again, WPF isn't that important.

This also depends a lot on how you play. With the changes to cut damage, I find overheads to be the most efficient way to kill people. So, if you follow around the main group, wait for them to engage someone and then overhead, they usually don't last more than 2.

[Leshma]

21/18

You'll move fast enough with 24/15 but swing speed is kinda slow.

[Vibe]

21/18

You'll move fast enough with 24/15 but swing speed is kinda slow.

Eh no, it isn't.

[Leshma]

Well it was okay but I prefer more agi. Maybe it's best for him to go 21/18 or 18/21, use Bec or some Pike which will make killing a lot easier task.

[v/onMega]

What I do feel with higher wpf is u can block really really late + i cant get rid of the feeling my weapon connects earlier.

Being able to move faster is a huge plus in battle when u like a sneaky playstyle.

Swingspeed itself, no effect.
Transition from blocking, feinting and initializing an attack, yes.

Vibe stop talking. You could play with 9 agi, u is a good manual blocker :-)

[Vibe]

Vibe stop talking. You could play with 9 agi, u is a good manual blocker :-)

I'm quite rusty these days, busy causing drama on other games

What I did notice though is that I'm more successful with blocking on faster weapons, for example with Staff. Although I don't think WPF plays a huge role after the first 100 points, to be honest.

[Leshma]

Well it's true that faster weapons have bigger advantage than any amount of weapon wpf or agi.

For example, you can have 24 agi, 172 wpf and Danish and you'll still swing/block/feint slower than you would do if you used Longsword with 12 agi/140 wpf.

[SixThumbs]

I'm rolling 25/15 right now with 3 athletics and I don't usually have a problem.

For the damage, and this analogy might not make sense, I think of it like I did as a kid playing turn-based rpgs back in the day. Would you want to kill the enemy in three swings reliably or have the chance to do it in two at a sacrifice for some speed/other abilities?