Cut Damage Tweak?

[MrShine]

Hello,

So in general I'm a fan of the recent armor soak/glance changes which have reduced the chance of weapons glancing on armor.  Those sorts of glances were very aggravating and it was a good change to make.

The big loser though was cut damage, which becomes very ineffective against armor.  Now that higher incoming damage reduction is compensating somewhat for the reduced chance to glance it takes many more hits to kill with a cut weapon as opposed to pierce and blunt.  This isn't necessarily a problem in itself, but given that the majority of the weapons in the game are focused around doing cut damage it seems like a fresh look at item balance is in order.

I personally think that slightly increasing cut damage's penetration of armor reductions (ie - slightly nerf armor against cut weapons) would be a good change.  Cut damage already does well against lightly armored units and I don't think they need to have higher base damage.

In closing I still think that cut should be worse against armor compared to the others, but without some changes I fear that we'll end up seeing too many of the same weapons.  There are so many more cut weapons than there are these blunt and pierce ones, and I personally love having lots of different possibilities for equipment.

Thoughts?

[Lichen]

What's the pierce damage like on most swords thrust? Seems like the solution is already there for those who can be bothered to use it.

[Lech]

It's fine as it is. I am cut damage user.

[Spawny]

Don't change it.

Now you actually have a reason to take the shorter pierce/blunt damage weapons over the cut damage ones.

Wanna kill peasants, archers and ninja? Take a sword.

Wanna kill a tincan? Bring a can-opener.

[Cheap_Shot]

I agree with the OP. We're just going to be seeing the same few weapons in everyones hands now. Too many people wear heavy armour for it to be worth while to even look at a cut weapon. This is a problem for both melee and ranged as well. Arrows do next to nothing to plate, and while that's not such a problem since archers can choose their targets easily, as a thrower, the cut changes made pretty much every hybrid friendly or low to mid range PT req throwing weapon completely useless. As if throwing wasn't bad enough, we have to use the most expensive and heavy throwing weapons or get completely stomped by plate every round. They don't even have to dodge anymore.

I agree, the change was a good one, but item rebalancing is in order. It was too global a change to just make and leave everything else. The OP makes some good suggestions.

[Christo]

I'm with Mr. Shine here.

Don't want to sound like a parrot, so.. that's it.

[Tzar]

Since everyone and their mother now has a set of loomed armor and gloves they are all in fact running around in plate armors stat wise so yeah i wouldnt mind a slight buff of dmg having to hit people in mail armor 5 times with my MW flamberge is just retarded considering its high price and 49 cut dmg.

Imo its a problem that might is bound to the fact that u can have +14 body armor with loomed gear might take a look at armor heirlooms before a tweak of the dmg happens.

Most weapons became pointless to heirloom after the nerf but armor/xbows where untouched.

[Christo]

lol Lech, you can - all of our comments. Is that all you've got? 

[Lech]

lol Lech, you can - all of our comments. Is that all you've got? 

yes.

[Digglez]

no reason at all to buff cut, its fine the way it is now....there is actually a DOWNside to using a sword now.

you either take speed+reach or armor penetration

plus against mail armor most cut weapons break even or very close to what an equivalent blunt/pierce would do.  You need 50+ armor or more before blunt/pierce start to have rightful advantage

[Baron Samedi]

I agree with Mrshine too : a change would be nice. Nothing to fancy, just a slight change in armor penetration should do the trick.

Don't change it.

Now you actually have a reason to take the shorter pierce/blunt damage weapons over the cut damage ones.

Wanna kill peasants, archers and ninja? Take a sword.

Wanna kill a tincan? Bring a can-opener.

This has always been true. Even before the glance chances changed, you always had a good reason to keep a pierce weapon with yourself. The problem isnt a balance within weapons, but within armor, especially since alot of people use heirloomed armors.

Digglez you say the difference isn't noticeable before 50 armor point. I feel like its noticeable before that but i might be wrong. Yet 50 armor is 15-16 weight (heraldic mail + polished gauntlet : 50 armor, 15.6 weight). Most of the melee char are either close or above that number.

Atm, STR builds are the most viable, and they kinda keep their advantages as most of the weapons (cut is most of the weapons) will deal less damage to them.

I don't think this thread is about a buff to cut based weapons, but about keepin' the Blunt>pierce>cut balance as it was before.
(and once again, don't touch the weapons stats, they are pretty much balanced atm)

[Cheap_Shot]

I feel like this is going to pretty much be a dead split between people who wear heavy armor and people who use cut weapons with everyone else just not caring. This is one of the most self serving communities I have ever experienced.

[Digglez]

cut weapons already have higher damage ratings than blunt/pierces so it makes no sense to buff them.  i'll post some dmg examples later

[Leshma]

Imo its a problem that might is bound to the fact that u can have +14 body armor with loomed gear might take a look at armor heirlooms before a tweak of the dmg happens.

Most weapons became pointless to heirloom after the nerf but armor/xbows where untouched.

^this

But I think that next patch that issue will be ressolved and that xbows and armor heirlooms would get well deserved nerf.

Best proof for this is the fact that people want loomed Gothic Plate with Bevor, something no one ever wanted to wear just because they get +7 to head armor as well...

[v/onMega]

Going for 15 / 24 this gen.

Absolutely astonished that 5 ps is enough to maintain a 3.5 / 4.0 to 1
 k/d.

Agibuilds are valid, playable and effective. You really need to play em lil more cautios, aim for heads.

Cut damage is fine as it is :-)