2h Animations for sideswings and overheads, polearm animations for thrusting on

[Spawny]

Following suggestion is only to be considered AFTER WSE implementation!!!

So, made that clear.

The suggestion is as follows:
2h Animations for sideswings and overheads, polearm animations for thrusting on all 2h weapons with a thrust attack longer than X (I'd say 110 range or so).

Why only after WSE implementation?

It should only be implemented after the devs are able to fix the polearm collision issues, polearm stun and other small bugs with the various weapons around.

What would this do?

Nerf 2h stabbing rance ofc.
Imo, there should be a difference between polearms and 2h in the way they're used. Right now the differences are minor and the balance is tipped to the favor of polearms (versatility, polearm stun, horse stopping) compared to 2h (less obvious animation makes them better dueling weapons).
In my vision, the difference should be:
2h - slashing weapons or bashing weapons (or cutting from the 2h axes)
polearms - poking weapons

To compensate for the now reduced thrusting functionality in terms of reach, there should be something done about the swing damage of polearms to make it more interesting to thrust with them. Maybe even increase thrusting damage a bit, but after this change, the polearms will have their reach advantage back for thrusting, while at the same time the reach advantage in sideswings for 2h weapons remains.

A 150 lenght polearm will now actually outrange a 120 length 2h sword while thrusting.

TL;DR - 2h Weapons should be slashing weapons wih some thrusting and polearms should be thrusting weapons with some slashing.

It's an idea open for discussion, I don't have all the wisdom. Please post here to help improve the idea or point out why it should never be implemented.

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[Jarlek]

Totally agree to this. Polearms stab, 2handers slash. 1h are ok at both. Polearms are longest and stun, but glance (animation not damage) easily. 2h is hard to glance (animation) but doesn't stun. 1h is fastest because their the shortest (GAMEPLAY you fools!).

[Byrdi]

I think its too early to discuss this, woudlnt it be easier to just change the damage on the weapons - so 2h is only good for slashing (like the katana) and polearms are only good for thrusting (like most spears).
I dont really thing the weapons need changes right now, exept for the many polearms glances.

[Leshma]

2h lolstab is weak, this would be of use before when lolstab had even more range, was a lot faster and did tons of damage. Now I don't think it's solution. Weaken lolstab some more if you need to, but please do not give swords that terrible polearm stab animation.

First of all, it has no sense and secondary it will make 2H swords crappier version of poleaxes which are shorter, have less damage and no stun.

Polearms are now actually better than 2H, I think they need more nerfing than 2H.

[Jarlek]

If you're new to this forums, please ignore Leshma. Now continue discussion.

I think its too early to discuss this, woudlnt it be easier to just change the damage on the weapons - so 2h is only good for slashing (like the katana) and polearms are only good for thrusting (like most spears).
I dont really thing the weapons need changes right now, exept for the many polearms glances.

Yeah the polearm glancing is very annoying, but they got the polestun so that makes it even (YES, EVEN!), the only thing that botters me a bit is the "suddeness" of stabs in general. They take as long time to do the animation as sideswings/overheads but I think they come to sudden from "hold" spot and stay to long in the "full stab" spot. Anybody else thinks this too?

[Spawny]

2h lolstab is weak, this would be of use before when lolstab had even more range, was a lot faster and did tons of damage. Now I don't think it's solution. Weaken lolstab some more if you need to, but please do not give swords that terrible polearm stab animation.

This suggestion is not just to nerf lolstab, it's to remove the 2hpikes. Pikes and longspears should be hard counters to cavalry, but with the current lance angle, a well times danish thrust can outrange a heave lance. Each class it's own niche.

First of all, it has no sense and secondary it will make 2H swords crappier version of poleaxes which are shorter, have less damage and no stun.

The sense in it, is the utterly unrealistic looking animation of someone holding a very long sword with completely stretched arms. All the other swings are pretty realistic, but thrusting a very big sword like that just looks silly.
To compensate, either increase the cut damage on the swords AND nerf the cut damage on polearms while increasing the thrust damage on polearms a bit.
So, polearms would have relatively high thrust damage, but piss poor damage on the swings. 2h swords would be where the nodachi was before it lost it's thrust. Great swing damage, but poor thrust damage with the polearm animation.

Also, implemented after WSE, so no polearm stun.

[Xant]

This suggestion is not just to nerf lolstab, it's to remove the 2hpikes. Pikes and longspears should be hard counters to cavalry, but with the current lance angle, a well times danish thrust can outrange a heave lance. Each class it's own niche.

No, it can't. A well timed danish thrust can ONLY outrange a heavy lance if the heavy lancer user fucks up.

[Teeth]

No, it can't. A well timed danish thrust can ONLY outrange a heavy lance if the heavy lancer user fucks up.

You can almost always hit the horse with a stab, but the thing is, tough horsies these days don't die and you're still toast. I think the average 2h has good enough defence against cav, if the 2h fucks up slightly he's toast. If the cav fucks up bigtime he's toast. Thats how it should be.

Also, the statement that polearms are for thrusting and 2h are for slashing is something i find just weird. You should look to every single weapon's own slashing and thrusting capabilities based on the model. (Which isn't done properly now too. 20b stab on the long iron mace and a 16p stab on the katana which has a clear pointy end.

[Panoply]

I'm not sure if it's possible to change only select animation speeds, or if it would entirely imbalance the game, but I think a lot of the disparity between game and real life stems from the constant animation speeds. This is just a thought, and I suspect it would be difficult to translate into gameplay terms, especially in a balanced manner.

One of the major advantages of spear in real life is that you can thrust quickly with it over and over. I mean, once someone is past the pointy end of your spear, you're in trouble, but getting past the point can be difficult if you're effectively jabbing at them to fend them off. Currently, depending on weapon speeds, a spear thrusts just as frequently as a 2her, which is nonsensical considering the relative ease of thrusting with a spear compared to a large two hander.

As it stands, the swing polearms (eg. poleaxe) are much more dangerous, imo, than the thrust polearms (eg. war spear). When I'm fighting someone with a spear, I know that their goal is to thrust, which is easily countered by a downblock. All the sideswiping is all posturing and polestunning to set up for the thrust.

As a random side note, I'm not sure exactly what the lengths added by animation are for 1h and 2h, but for the same length weapons, the 1h stab should have more reach than the 2h stab, just as 1h poles have more reach than 2h poles. This is because with 1h, you can get the rotation of your body into the attack for extra reach, and you don't have to have both hands meet at a common point which lowers their reach.

[Leshma]

The sense in it, is the utterly unrealistic looking animation of someone holding a very long sword with completely stretched arms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TzdtyMC7ek&feature=related (starts at 2:14)

Also if I'm correct you already commented this video in thread about Langes Messer.

I don't see big difference between trusting they do and what we have now in c-rpg. Before when lolstab was truly lolstab (less than 1 sec animation) I would agree but not now.

Edit: Also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj4Ng6DBfrg&feature=related

[Jarlek]

Funny how Leshma had a long argument with ToD where he claimed that you should never believe a german and never listen to what a german says (because of WW2), yet he links to a video of germans fencing and shit, using it as sources for what he wants to lobby for.

Funny world.

[Leshma]

Funny is how you guys named yourself Risen yet you're still at the bottom, skill wise 

[Jarlek]

We are? Strange. Last time I checked we top the scoreboards most of the time, haven't lost a strat war, duel server has us on the top and we are more numerous then a lot of other clans. 
When was the last time anyone saw a Bandit (apart from Gnjus the wise) on top of the scoreboards?

[Leshma]

I think you're being delusional. Only Risen member who's a man worth of his salt is that guy with an axe, can't remember his name.

[Siiem]

We are? Strange. Last time I checked we top the scoreboards most of the time, haven't lost a strat war, duel server has us on the top and we are more numerous then a lot of other clans. 
When was the last time anyone saw a Bandit (apart from Gnjus the wise) on top of the scoreboards?

Gnjus has been on top of the scoreboard