Siege: BI Stone Keep

[Bjorn_Ironsides]

BI Stone Keep

After playing for several weeks I found myself really wanting to get into creating scenes for the community to increase the number of quality scenes we can have in the rotation. This is my first attempt at making a scene for CRPG so I tried to not get in over my head with something really complicated. I would like to use this thread for any comments people wish to leave and if there is any issues that need to be looked at.

Download Version 1.0 - http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3132
                 Version 1.1 - http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3176
                 Version 1.2 - http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3179
                 Version 1.3 - http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3224

Layout
-Attackers spawn in camp out front of walls
-Defenders spawn throughout town (none placed on the top of walls but many within easy access of stairs)
-2 Gatehouses one front and one rear with portcullis
-2 Siege Ladders one front and one rear
-1 Siege Tower front

Here are some screens to provide an idea of what the map is all about

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[Jacko]

Looks very neat and well made. Hard to tell how it plays. The town part looks a bit.. Unnecessary?  Kind of looks like you'll just go right/left and ignore that part. I fear that large parts of the town will be un-played because you don't have a need to pass through it.

[VVarlord]

Just played on this on our server very nice map indeed well balanced.

[Bjorn_Ironsides]

Good to hear it went over well on your guys server if there are any problems that come up let me know

[Punisher]

I added your map to the official EU servers. After playing it once I can say an alternative way for attackers to reach the flag is really needed. Defenders can stack construction sites and camp the door, making it almost imposible for attackers to have a chance. I would suggest adding a stair between the roof and first level of the keep, so attackers can access the roof from outside by ladders and actually be able to get to the flag. Currently jumping inside from the roof is pretty much lethal.

[Bjorn_Ironsides]

I added your map to the official EU servers. After playing it once I can say an alternative way for attackers to reach the flag is really needed. Defenders can stack construction sites and camp the door, making it almost imposible for attackers to have a chance. I would suggest adding a stair between the roof and first level of the keep, so attackers can access the roof from outside by ladders and actually be able to get to the flag. Currently jumping inside from the roof is pretty much lethal.

Thanks first for adding the map to your server its appreciated, secondly I will happily create an update version of the map with your suggestions when done I will post an update here

[Bjorn_Ironsides]

Version 1.1
http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3176

As requested by Punisher I have uploaded a version which has stairs giving access to the second floor of the inner keep via the roof, I have yet to get the pleasure of seeing the map fully populated so I am interested in seeing how it feels.

[Punisher]

Thank you for updating. After playing the updated version, some further adjustements are needed to make the 2nd path viable for attackers.
1. Add a stair on the side of this house to make the house roof accessible (same stair model you used for the interior stair just made out of 2 parts would work, since it would fit the architecture).

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2. Remove the fence from the keep roof.
3. Slightly elevate the houses where you added the staircase or slightly lower the keep wall so you can jump from the house roof to the keep roof. It would probably be easier to just add a small stair between the 3rd house roof and the keep roof but it won't look so good so I wouldn't recommend it.

[Bjorn_Ironsides]

Version 1.2
http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3179

In response to the 1.1 Update I have added the requested elements in order to gain access to the roof of the inner keep while also removing the railings which were placed to block access initially when the scene was created.

*UPDATE*
I had the chance to play the map on EU2 (map version 1.1) and saw how without the alternative route onto the roof that is added in 1.2 leaves attackers without a fair chance at getting into the inner keep. I had some other ideas come up but will wait to see how this new version plays out before making other modifications, it was clear though that attackers are at a disadvantage without the new stair route up so hopefully that should even the playing field out.

[Punisher]

Looks a lot better now, saw attackers winning from time to time, defenders still have the upper hand though. About that, correct me if I'm wrong but defenders spawn only inside the flag keep? If that's the case, adding additional defender spawnpoints on the outer wall and in the courtyard would balance it out, since defenders wouldn't always spawn near the flag.

[Bjorn_Ironsides]

Looks a lot better now, saw attackers winning from time to time, defenders still have the upper hand though. About that, correct me if I'm wrong but defenders spawn only inside the flag keep? If that's the case, adding additional defender spawnpoints on the outer wall and in the courtyard would balance it out, since defenders wouldn't always spawn near the flag.

This was something I noticed when I played the scene during the 1st spawn it would seem the attackers and defenders spawn grouped up, this is not intended as I had placed only 5 spawn locations of a possible 32 inside the inner keep the rest are in the town streets with most near the front wall of the city. Attackers spawn locations are also (if you look at the scene in the editor) placed all around the camp location and not just in the wood wall portion. While creating the scene I desired to have a few spawn at the start in the inner keep (to allow door access) and the majority to spawn close to the wall so they could get up the stairs and defend the gatehouse/ladders. I will make a post seeing if any other scene creators have come across this and if there is a way to ensure the spawns function as desired, if not I can move the inner keeps spawns outside with the rest, if I take that option I would also replace the doors on the inner keep with a type that can be opened by defenders on both sides as the current ones cannot be opened from the outside.

[Camaris]

You need to rework that map a bit. Defenders win always on this map.
The entry to the flag is spammed with construction sites often attackers dont even manage
to kill the door to the flag.

You could get rid of that whole building and map could be balanced i guess.
You could try to remove doors of the buildings.
You could remove defender spawns near flag.
You could add 1-2 additional ways to flag.

[Bjorn_Ironsides]

You need to rework that map a bit. Defenders win always on this map.
The entry to the flag is spammed with construction sites often attackers dont even manage
to kill the door to the flag.

You could get rid of that whole building and map could be balanced i guess.
You could try to remove doors of the buildings.
You could remove defender spawns near flag.
You could add 1-2 additional ways to flag.

As per previous discussion these points have been balanced to some degree (working with Punisher), also due to not having a clear answer given as of yet as to why the spawning script is performing in a way that is not intended needs to be addressed before other changes to work around it will be made (I in fact in a previous post made nearly the same remark you requested saying that if the spawning script continues to act as it does I would likely move the defenders spawn points or rework the doors).

If I am correct EU2 is running the latest update of the map (1.2) which means as attackers you do not need to break the doors down, stairs were added to the back of the building giving access to the roof with another set leading safely into the flag area (detailed in screenshots).

[zagibu]

The spawning script has always worked this way. Good luck on getting it changed and included in cRPG. I can't even get bugfixes in, as the devs are simply oblivious to the fact that some problems exist and need to be addressed.

[Camaris]

Yeah its true that you could get their from behind with stairs or put ladders up.
But i have played this map several times and no team managed to win as attacker while i was playing so far.
Just wanted to give feedback that your map is not balanced.