Agincourt

[Kalam]

didnt read none of your posts! english won cuz archers with pointy sticks... and the frenchies are sissies who drown in mud. p.s. does anyone ever have to wonder why france loses a fight? arent they famous for losing? cmon now.

Don't be bated by the Canadian strawman. He is secretly french.

[FICO]

why, icelanders NEVER lost a war

[Rheinhardt]

why, icelanders NEVER _^lost^fought a war

[Diomedes]

I'm pretty sure the English only won because they camped with OP longbows and billhooks.  Banner balance does it again amirite?

[Vammo75]

The Cod Wars in the '50s and '70s.

[Roran Hawkins]

The French mounted knight charged trough a plowed and muddy field, turned into a complete mess by the rain, right into the English arrowrains, wich panicked their horses, their horses ran away, fell, ran onto the sharpened trees infront of the archers, in other words, one big chaos of falling horses. Then, their infantry charged and did the same (mostly dismounted knights) Their progress was slower, since they weren't mounted, and they got even more arrows on them. The French cavalry tried flanking the English positions but they got repelled.


Imagine running trough knee-deep mud, with a full suit of armour, and weapons. Not that easy. Add arrow rain of longbows: chaos.
After the French leaders were killed, the French started to rout.





Is this a good theory?

[FICO]

nah... it lacks dicks

[CtrlAltDe1337]

I'm pretty sure the English only won because they camped with OP longbows and billhooks.  Banner balance does it again amirite?

Ino rite? so op, they are just a bunch of lame campers, waiting till the timer ran out.  The only reason the French attacked was because they got bored and didn't want to lose their multiplier to a draw.

[woody]

Ever seen a test of warbow 150lb draw plus bodkin arrows vs plate at 50 yds? Dead tincan. Not talking about bullshit tests with 70lb bows fired by 12 stone guys - longbowmen were so strong it warped their bones and their ligiment attachments to bone were massive.

If you have no need to answer why English plus Welsh won at Crecy, Poitires, Agincourt etc etc.

Also helped when tincans got to the wooden spikes these guys flattened them with picks/sledges/axes - big men with heavy anti armour weapons

Terrain, dismounted english knights with polearms, bad weather, appalling french leadership, missing troops due the French regions essentially hating each other all contributed, but Warbows won it.

Longbowmen only ceased to rule battlefield due to the training and big guys needed was huge investment which guns did not need.

[Bobthehero]

Maybe agaisnt plate alone, but with the padding and the mail the arrow aint passing through.

[FICO]

Maybe agaisnt plate alone, but with the padding and the mail the arrow aint passing through.

it passes, but ir is not going to cause fatal wound. however englishmen were very fast at releasing their arrows so this knight could have a dosen non-lethal wounds from which he would bleed. if you're lucky and you haven' bleed a lot, google for effects. nasty

[Quirian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRXwk4Kdbic

[FICO]

i like when "can arrow pierce armor" thread appears


i say http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPankbXL3d0&feature=related

[FICO]

my view on "archers won battle against heavy armoured knights" is that it was like today news. it was victory. that's clear. there are few ways how to make win bigger. that's also excuse to french nobility why they failed - uber weapon. the real cause why did french lost is that their cavalry charge wasn't so quick due to mud. also on pictures you can see french cavalry uniformed, but in reality in armies of that time there was no such thing. every noble and peasant had to take care of their equipment and food. so french noble cavalry armour could range from simple chain to thick plate (not every nobleman was very rich). much of mounts were not even armoured. even in crpg you can see smile on face of xbowman when he sees big target

today when uniformity of armies is something common and US army is well known of their uberbulletproof vests and helmets you have still dead US soldiers killed by gunfire AND wearing vests and helmets

[woody]

The caveat I put in was that the Warbows used were as per the Marie Rose ones calculated at 150lb plus and 50 yards or less.

Having seen this done they do go through. I would like to see the assumptions used, weight of arrows etc used as the base for the u tube clip because these are crucial.

No-one disputes the bows that all but a few modern bowmen can use do not penetrate armour and there are many clips of these failing but these are irrelevant. What matters is the bows and heavy arrows used at Agincourt.