Author Topic: Overview: The different troop classes and their job on the battlefield  (Read 2773 times)

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Offline Michael

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1h+big heavy shield/ turtler:
Charge: Throwers, Archers
Avoid: Crushthrough, shieldbreaker, cavalry

1h+small fast shield:
Charge: 2h-swordsmen
Avoid: shieldbreakers, cavalry

2h-crushthrough/shieldbreaker:
Charge: turtlers/ Shielders
Avoid: ranged troops, 2hswordsmen, pikemen

2hswordsmen:
Charge: pikemen, 2hcrushthrough, 2hshieldbreaker,
cavalry
Avoid: ranged troops, 1hsmallfastshieldfacehuggingagibooster

pikemen:
Charge: cavalry, 2h
Avoid: ranged, shielders

Heavy cavalry/ 1h/ 2h cavalry:
Charge: Archers
Avoid: throwers, pikemen, lancer, 2hswordsmen

lancer:
Charge: heavy cav, shielder
Avoid: thrower, archer, pikemen, 2h

Archer:
charge: thrower, light cavalry, pikemen, 2h
avoid: heavy cavalry, shielder

Thrower:
Charge: cavalry, 2h, pikemen
avoid: shielders

Horse archers:
charge: light cavalry

Crossbowmen:
charge: archers, 2h, pikemen
avoid: cavalry, shielders




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Offline sami1337

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Re: Overview: The different troop classes and their job on the battlefield
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2011, 02:46:42 pm »
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Only been playing 1h + big shield so far and this is my opinion:

Quote
1h+big heavy shield/ turtler:
Charge: Throwers, Archers, pikemen, 2h swordsmen
Avoid: Crushthrough, shieldbreaker, cavalry, hatchet thrower

Good idea to make this thread. Would be nice to also include class specific tactics?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 02:49:28 pm by sami1337 »

Offline Michael

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Re: Overview: The different troop classes and their job on the battlefield
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2011, 04:14:45 pm »
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Only been playing 1h + big shield so far and this is my opinion:

Good idea to make this thread. Would be nice to also include class specific tactics?



My motivation to start this topic was simple: Less flame and hate in in game chat, more fun for everyone.

Usually its like this: The average player attacks the wrong average enemy, and thinks he lost because the other class is overpowered.

But thats not true.

I have tested all (ALL) classes after the patch, and the only class that is overpowered at the moment is throwing-2h/polearm strength hybrid.

All other classes are kinda balanced.


Its up to the veterans/ dedicated players who feel competent, of each classes to decide if they want to share their experience.
There is a topic for the flamberge, I see. 

I wont invest so much time and explain every single class how its to be played.

I have done my part. =)

I hope you do understand.


On your opinion:

Quote
    1h+big heavy shield/ turtler:
    Charge: Throwers, Archers, pikemen, 2h swordsmen

As a heavy shield user, or turtler even, charging a skilled pikeman is risky, a 2h is suicide. They can either spam you with left-right-left swings (Ninja katana spammer), or strike, back-pedal, strike, back-pedal (Flamburger) till your shield breaks (depending on their weapon) But if it works for you, you are either above average, or very lucky that you dont meet the wrong enemies. =)


Quote
    Avoid: Crushthrough, shieldbreaker, cavalry, hatchet thrower

Who the hell would charge the "hatchet" thrower then? Dont look at me. On foot, I use pike, no shield, no armor, and he has about 16 chances to hit me once and insta kill me. On horseback, even the worst thrower cant miss my horse, and 1 axe, its dead. Same for me. I dont use a shield. Never. Not on foot. Not on horseback.

Its your god damn job to charge and kill that damn thrower. =)
Just push forward, your heavy shield can easily take a couple of those axes. Also, throwers are usually strength builds, unlike archers, they dont have much athletics, so they cant escape. And they suck in melee. They can use their throwing axes, lances in melee, but not very effective. If they were skilled in melee, they didnt have to throw shit at you. So its an easy kill for you. Just charge, forward, and get them. Every 2h/ pikeman in your team will appreciate your efforts, I assure you.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 04:30:08 pm by Michael »
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Offline Paul

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Re: Overview: The different troop classes and their job on the battlefield
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2011, 04:50:03 pm »
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How to charge cavalry as a footman?

Offline sami1337

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Re: Overview: The different troop classes and their job on the battlefield
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2011, 04:59:56 pm »
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I see your points Michael. But for me any skilled player is a risk to take on..

I don't avoid hatchet throwers, simply because i feel i need to push and be aggressive. But if i know there are archers behind me i would rather stay back and avoid his hatchets while archers pick him off, or my team charges him. Reason being i don't want to lose my shield forcing me to take a role i don't like.

If everyone understood their role in the field, i think it would make it easier to not get butt-hurt so much.
I get butt-hurt much, because my team mates leave me after i support them by pushing back the enemy with my shield and dying myself because they swarm me.

Offline Noble Crassius

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Re: Overview: The different troop classes and their job on the battlefield
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2011, 05:09:03 pm »
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Axes move so slow, I usually just dodge em. I try not to crutch on my shield too heavily so I usually don't mind if it breaks, just gives me time to practice my manual blocking.

Most shielders should avoid crush through yes,  I on the other hand think their swing speed is so slow that I enjoy seeing a hammer/mallet brought out = free kill. Only thing that might give me trouble is the bar mace but it rarely seems to crush, when it does it means the wielder has a str build and I can usually just out spam them. The knock down on the bar mace gets me more than the actual crush. Forgot about the long maul avoid that thing it's the hawk to our gerbil.

/agree about cav, they suck. Although I do enjoy when I kill one with a jump slash  :D.

Archer:
charge: thrower, light cavalry, pikemen, 2h
avoid: heavy cavalry, shielder

I think all ranged needs to focus on heavy cavalry, if they don't it's usually up for the whole round.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 05:19:57 pm by Fallen_CrassiusV2 »
On it.

Offline Michael

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Re: Overview: The different troop classes and their job on the battlefield
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2011, 05:33:37 pm »
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How to charge cavalry as a footman?

Archer: shoot
Crossbowman: shoot
Thrower: throw
2h sword: stab
axe: jump-slash
shielder: tell us =P

If cavalry = plated charger, footmen with a few points in athletics can outrun cavalry. =)

I see your points Michael. But for me any skilled player is a risk to take on..

Like for everyone else.
I mean, there are some players around, Dima, Bjord, Paul, ... that can keep 2 or 3 enemies busy at the same time, but this topic is assuming we are talking about average players with average = same skill.

Quote
I don't avoid hatchet throwers, simply because i feel i need to push and be aggressive.

What is right. As a shielder, its very important to be aggressive. Hiding behind your shield and back-pedaling or even standing still is the easiest way to die.

Quote
But if i know there are archers behind me i would rather stay back and avoid his hatchets while archers pick him off, or my team charges him.

Well, it depends on many things.
I wanted to keep it simple, assuming that the same number of classes is present on both sides.
This is only theoretical stuff of course.
In real battles, you have to judge.
When your archers are owning, its smart to fall back, watch their back and let them do their thing.

When the enemy has the better ranged troops, ask yourself: What is better? Waiting, doing nothing, and let them kill your ranged supports, your 2h and pikemen and then you?
Or just pushing forward, everyone focussing on the enemy that is easiest to kill for him.
And for your build its the thrower you need to charge.


Quote
Reason being i don't want to lose my shield forcing me to take a role i don't like.

With high shield skill you can pick up another shield from a dead body.


Quote
If everyone understood their role in the field, i think it would make it easier to not get butt-hurt so much.
I get butt-hurt much, because my team mates leave me after i support them by pushing back the enemy with my shield and dying myself because they swarm me.

It depends. On many things.

Sometimes your mates lose confidence, they dont want to die, and retreat. There is nothing wrong with that, its your fault then because you charged against all odds.

What makes me angry are people that are there one second, and then five of them chase that one naked peasant instead of holding the fucking line.

But well, not everyone is a genius/ good player, and even if, humans tend to do make mistakes.





« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 05:37:05 pm by Michael »
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Offline Michael

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Re: Overview: The different troop classes and their job on the battlefield
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2011, 05:55:17 pm »
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Axes move so slow, I usually just dodge em.

Oh, the speed increases with the power throw. Some have only 2 points. But I am talking about the nasty throwers with about power throw 10.
Even if you can "dodge" a couple of them, there is always one left that usually gets you.

Nowadays arrows are easier to "dodge".

Also, dodging only works when you can focus on one thrower/ archer.

If they are smart, they work together, in small groups.

Quote
I try not to crutch on my shield too heavily so I usually don't mind if it breaks, just gives me time to practice my manual blocking.

Very interesting stuff.

Quote
Most shielders should avoid crush through yes,  I on the other hand think their swing speed is so slow that I enjoy seeing a hammer/mallet brought out = free kill. Only thing that might give me trouble is the bar mace but it rarely seems to crush, when it does it means the wielder has a str build and I can usually just out spam them.

Thats why I made two different classes.
The turtler/ heavy armored heavy shield using shielder,
and the high agi light armor fast shield using 1hander.

The first shield type should avoid charging crushthrough,

the second type can charge them. You have the longer and faster weapon, be aggressive and charge and spam, thats the way to go.

With my 1h agi build I could kill boulder on a stick guys in a 1 vs 1. Thats why they have usually some pikemen support as wingmen with them, what makes them nasty.

Quote
Archer:
charge: thrower, light cavalry, pikemen, 2h
avoid: heavy cavalry, shielder

I think all ranged needs to focus on heavy cavalry, if they don't it's usually up for the whole round.

Not when a skilled lancer is on the other team.

Its kinda funny, I dont know how often I was chasing the charger guy with his 1h on my Palfrey and my light lance, I had him, and what happened? A friendly archer killed my horse.................no further comment.

Also, even if no skilled lancer is in your team: When all ranged troops focus on the one heavy cav, tunnel-vision, they all get killed by enemy lancers, enemy archers, enemy Ninjas, enemy crossbowmen, and just to take down one horse that is no danger to anyone.

The armored horse is more elephant than ever. It scares the footmen (because they never played it and therefore dont know that it sucks), and scared people panic and overlook the real menace behind them.

More than once I was simply riding around on my heavy plated charger, hiding behind my steel shield with skill 8, the shield with its magnetism did all the work, took arrow after arrow, and my fellow lancer/ Ninja back-stabbed the whole group of archers.

Doesnt make sense.

If archers want to play this card, they always need support, someone who guards them, pikemen and 2h.

In other words, it makes only sense when you are in a good defense position (lame hill camping and the charger is dumb enough to charge the hill alone).

« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 06:01:09 pm by Michael »
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Offline MountedRhader

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Re: Overview: The different troop classes and their job on the battlefield
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2011, 11:47:50 pm »
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Usually its like this: The average player attacks the wrong average enemy, and thinks he lost because the other class is overpowered.


All other classes are kinda balanced.


Agreed.  :wink:

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Overview: The different troop classes and their job on the battlefield
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2011, 08:28:44 am »
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I usually play lance, and I love two-handers and polearms (other than pike, think glaive, bardiche and the like) who try and charge me. Also my main role is usually taking out other cav then ranged. Archers take you down easy but that's the challenge, plus backstabbing an archer is so satisfying.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 08:30:52 am by Oberyn »
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Offline Beleidiger

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Re: Overview: The different troop classes and their job on the battlefield
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2011, 09:47:32 am »
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I Love your way of Explaining Michael go ahead!^^