So u removed crushthrough, remove "unbalanced" from the old crush through 2h's

[Miley]

I definitely agree. Make Morningstar, Bar Mace, and Long Iron Mace balanced!

[Anti]

better yet, make the bec only attack in two directions and make it longer.

[22nd_King_Plazek]

No, add imbalances to all the bullshit polearms instead.

Oh a great axe eh? Unbalanced at  its tiny size even if it does good damage.

Great long axe? Fucking massive, higher damage unbalanced? No? Because you grip it like a polearm? Sure if it was the same size as a great axe this would make sense. However it isn't it is twice the damn size! It is just bigger and better with the main disadvantages of the great ace (3 attack directions only and imbalanced) taken away!

There are plenty other bullshit pole weapons too.

Oh look a little spear? That tiny piece of metal on the end does more P damage than a greatsword! How does that work?

Well you see if has this pole and well you got hands on your arms so it you know, magically does more damage!

[Cyclopsided]

Grab a broom, brushy end away from you. Hold it at the base as a 2h. Thrust it that way. Now hold it as a pole arm, thrust it that way.
As a 2h you get much more reach but a weaker thrust. Pole arm has a stronger thrust but much less reach.

Now hold your broom as a 2h, swing it around. You get lots of reach but it is very unwieldy, hard to cancel directions and feint. How hold it as a pole arm, much less reach but much more control, very easy to move around and is not unbalanced.

Pros and cons. Plus, this is a pretty good example as a broom has identical weight distribution to an axe.

[Gorath]

No, add imbalances to all the bullshit polearms instead.

Oh a great axe eh? Unbalanced at  its tiny size even if it does good damage.

Great long axe? Fucking massive, higher damage unbalanced? No? Because you grip it like a polearm? Sure if it was the same size as a great axe this would make sense. However it isn't it is twice the damn size! It is just bigger and better with the main disadvantages of the great ace (3 attack directions only and imbalanced) taken away!

There are plenty other bullshit pole weapons too.

Oh look a little spear? That tiny piece of metal on the end does more P damage than a greatsword! How does that work?

Well you see if has this pole and well you got hands on your arms so it you know, magically does more damage!

Someone that doesn't understand the way the human body or physics works.

Grab a broom, brushy end away from you. Hold it at the base as a 2h. Thrust it that way. Now hold it as a pole arm, thrust it that way.
As a 2h you get much more reach but a weaker thrust. Pole arm has a stronger thrust but much less reach.

Now hold your broom as a 2h, swing it around. You get lots of reach but it is very unwieldy, hard to cancel directions and feint. How hold it as a pole arm, much less reach but much more control, very easy to move around and is not unbalanced.

Pros and cons. Plus, this is a pretty good example as a broom has identical weight distribution to an axe.

Indeed Marathon, indeed.

[22nd_King_Plazek]

I believe the density of straw or plastic on the end of a broom is rather different from the density of the iron or steel axehead as seen on the great axe. I might imagine this should have rather a large effect on weight distribution and therefore balance.

I would also hesitate before assuming that because I, when waving a broom around, happen to have a better polearm thrusting technique than 2h one that therefore polearms are all better at thrusting than swords.

I should imagine trained warriors had various techniques far above and beyond what you would learn from swinging around a broom.

---

Anyway I understand inertia and I do not buy that a great long axe is a balanced weapon compared to a spear. Anyway it is already clear that not all polearms are unequivocally balanced, the long maul is unbalanced and a polearm, as is the great long bardiche, so clearly there is no black and white distinction between 2h and pole weapons. So suggesting I am a moron because I think some polearms are balanced when they should not be is a bit short sighted don't you think.

[Cyclopsided]

I did not insult you in any way, nor call you a moron. I simply gave you a practical example of weight distribution and weapon holding to make a point. And, no really, brooms have identical weight distribution to an axe of equal size. Both the haft and the end are lighter for a broom, it evens out.
And just as someone can have training better in 2h, they can in pole arms a well. Not a point to argue.

And yes, The long maul and great long bardiche are unbalanced due to the sheer amount of weight at the tip. Even holding them in pole style they are still unbalanced -- and even moreso, they are unbalanced for game balance.
Anyways, if you look at my posts in this thread, I'm lobbying for the removal of unbalanced from a lot of 2h weapons if you read.

[Gorath]

I should imagine trained warriors had various techniques far above and beyond what you would learn from swinging around a broom.

Yeah, for thrusting long swords (2her's for game comparison) they used halfswording a good portion of the time, which is holding the sword like a polearm for better thrusting power.

[DaveUKR]

Bec loses ~20 length on swings. Iron Mace GAINS length (I forget the exact number) which makes it a very close call.

this mace is longer using over-head attacks by 6 points , the same length using left-to-right swings, 9 points shorter using right-to-left swings, 61 longer on thrusts (though i doubt you can compare thrusts of these weapons
Long Iron Mace VS Bec de Corbin
110 (+6) Overhead attacks (effective length points) 105
112 Left-to-right swings (effective length points) 113 (+1)
108 Right-to-left swings (effective length points) 118 (+10)
~175 (+36) Thrust (effective length points) 139
Blunt (marked this green because blunt is more effective against any type of armour than pierce except cases of huge amounts of PS and STR) Damage type Pierce
Knockdown Bonuses No
No Balanced Yes
No Usage on horseback Yes
No Weapon type bonuses Can stop horses using thrust
33b Swing damage 36p
20b Thrust damage 26p
5662 Price 10806
92 Speed rating 93
4.5 Weight 2.8
14 Difficulty 15

7:8. Bec wins but this is a premature comparison, tbh. These weapons are different and they're better than each other in different situations.

[Cyclopsided]

110% awesome post by dave.
honestly iron mace should lose the unbalanced tag, but lose some speed too.

[HarunYahya]

Long Iron Mace
+Damage Type(Blunt)
+Knockdown
-Unbalanced
_______________
Morningstar
+Damage Type(Pierce)
+Effective on Horseback.
+1h/2h switch
+Bonus Against Shields
-Unbalanced
_______________
Bec De Corbin
+ Damage Type(Pierce)
-  None

I don't see any problems with these weapons , i think they are balanced somehow.
To understand why some weapons are unbalanced you have to check their "center of mass" . If most of the weight stays on a particular section of an object (Like an axe or maul for example.) it is unbalanced.
If you want to swing this unbalanced object in a balanced and well controlled way, you have to hold it closer to it's metal part to direct your force balanced to it which will provide an easily controllable swing.
That's why most of the polearms are balanced and they lose hell of a range.

Why spear thrust deal more damage than a sword ?
Little and pointy metal designed to penetrate flesh and cause fatal damage to inner organs.It has a design same as arrow,bolt and modern bullet design.Swords in cRPG (Broadswords and such)mostly designed to cut off limbs because this was the technique to use swords  till 16th century.If you check 16th-17th century Rapier style swords you'll see they designed to penetrate armour and flesh to cause fatal damage to inner organs like spears but you can't cut off limbs with that ;)

[22nd_King_Plazek]

Yeah, for thrusting long swords (2her's for game comparison) they used halfswording a good portion of the time, which is holding the sword like a polearm for better thrusting power.

Which a swordsman would be trained in doing, not a spearman, so why should a swordsman need polearm training to use his weapon properly?

---

Marathon I am aware you were polite, that particular comment was not aimed at you.
Anyway I would think the great long bardiche and the great long axe are somewhat similar...

[Cyclopsided]

Anyway I would think the great long bardiche and the great long axe are somewhat similar...

length. All about the length.

[22nd_King_Plazek]

(click to show/hide)

Long Maul
weapon length: 125
weight: 7
difficulty: 18
speed rating: 70
weapon length: 125
thrust damage: 10 blunt
swing damage: 37 blunt
slots: 3

Great Long Axe
weapon length: 125
weight: 3.5
difficulty: 16
speed rating: 91
weapon length: 125
thrust damage: 16 blunt
swing damage: 45 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Bonus against Shield

(click to show/hide)

Great Long Bardiche
weapon length: 155
weight: 3.8
difficulty: 18
speed rating: 87
weapon length: 155
thrust damage: 18 pierce
swing damage: 46 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Unbalanced
Bonus against Shield

Glaive
weapon length: 160
weight: 2.8
difficulty: 16
speed rating: 90
weapon length: 160
thrust damage: 22 pierce
swing damage: 39 cut
slots: 2

Not all, apparently.

[Thucydides]

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

Not all, apparently.

a long maul weighs twice as much as a gla, while a glb weighs a lot more than a glaive