Author Topic: Why do we even need upkeep anymore?  (Read 39433 times)

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Offline Lichen

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Re: Why do we even need upkeep anymore?
« Reply #435 on: August 25, 2012, 10:57:14 pm »
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I Don't spend weeks playing this game I come in now and then to have some fun with a sense of accomplishment that you don't get as much in vanilla or Napoleon.  That's what I'm enjoying about cRPG is that I'm growing and improving in tangible ways. 

Yet the current upkeep system penalizes folks like me who aren't "hardcore" or "Dedicated" enough to devote the hours/days/weeks/months to have 50K reserves and such. 
You don't want to put in the time yet want the benefits of those who did? Ok, devs give noobs 100,000 gold. They can only be bothered to play the game 'now and then' YET want the benefits that come from not playing it just now and then.

Offline Taser

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Re: Why do we even need upkeep anymore?
« Reply #436 on: August 25, 2012, 11:17:26 pm »
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Upkeep isn't that bad. It definitely doesn;t work well as a balancing act in the game since I have a lot of gold to fall back on on my main if I run into a bad streak of x1 and lose 10k gold or more. So I basically don't even care about how much gold I spend on upkeep when round ends. I don't even notice.

Whenever I make a new alt I might but I always go cheap since its a new alt that can't do anything anyway thus I earn a bunch of gold to buffer upkeep by the time I get gear. Then the not caring about upkeep continues.

People need to understand that before upkeep it was not all plate all the time. Were there people that abused the hell out of it? Lol yes. Lady gaga (who I saw on siege last night o.o) was definitely one of those people. Plated Charger with morningstar and all plate armor. Lol. Killed half the team every round especially on plain maps. Hilarious.

Anyway there needs to be a different system but I don't like the idea of usage points. I want to use the items I have rather than switch out outfits.

Not sure how to balance it though. If upkeep was removed, that wouldn't mean that everyone would go plate but it would mean that more people would carry more expensive weapons and armor. Not everyone would because there are people that like speed thus would have light armor but for a large portion of the population you're going to see an increase on armor.

Perhaps something like Joker's idea where someone in heavy armor is slower and light armor is faster. *shrug* Not necessarily true in real life but mobility would be different.
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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Why do we even need upkeep anymore?
« Reply #437 on: August 25, 2012, 11:31:30 pm »
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You don't want to put in the time yet want the benefits of those who did? Ok, devs give noobs 100,000 gold. They can only be bothered to play the game 'now and then' YET want the benefits that come from not playing it just now and then.

Levelling/retiring/looms etc should only ever be a slight acknowledgement of your time spent playing, rather than some bonus that artificially boosts your killing/surviving potential. Thankfully the biggest hurdle anyone ever has in cRPG is learning how to play well. Get all the looms in the world and you will still mistime an attack, fail a block, not be aware of some cav or sneaky player, choose the wrong attack type, have bad footwork etc. Retiring/looms etc is more a distraction from the learning process than the main goal imo..you shouldn't just think of it as a grind but something that marks your progression as you enjoy the real meat of the game.

But looms and being lvl 30+ does help. Once you get a +3 weapon you will do a bit more damage, and having gloves/body armour for melee type probably helps survive some hits. Don't play if getting looms is your only goal though, aim to get better at the game and forget looms until you afford them

I see the guy wasn't really talking about looms but normal gear..well stay within 20-30k total gear and its hard to lose money over time. You just need a little reserve as was mentioned to cover bad luck. With your weapon you need some melee wpf over 100 to keep the repair chance lower
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 11:38:03 pm by Grumbs »
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Offline HarunYahya

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Re: Why do we even need upkeep anymore?
« Reply #438 on: August 25, 2012, 11:53:45 pm »
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So just grind it out that's what you're saying?  I shouldn't need a 50K G reserve to play the game and have fun.  As I said before I can easily just go back to Napoleon DLC instead of this because I'm not being penalized for losing all the time. 

Do you want new players here or not? 

I've done the Korean grind-fest MMO's and honestly I don't need to do them in M&B.  I Don't spend weeks playing this game I come in now and then to have some fun with a sense of accomplishment that you don't get as much in vanilla or Napoleon.  That's what I'm enjoying about cRPG is that I'm growing and improving in tangible ways. 

Yet the current upkeep system penalizes folks like me who aren't "hardcore" or "Dedicated" enough to devote the hours/days/weeks/months to have 50K reserves and such. 

Seriously this IS a good mod, I enjoy it, but it's not an easy one to love when it punishes you to learn about it.  ESPECIALLY when there are other easy options to play that don't. 
This is bullshit QQ .
cRPG has persistant growth system , you start as a peasant and make your way to your dream knight or archer or whatever the fuck you want to play in this game.
This is not native you can't just log in and play with full equip and shit.
You have to throw stones , attack with cudgel , become a meatshield for xbowmen and such to raise steps in hyerarchic order of cRPG.

Do not cry because you can't have 50k as a newbie.
It is very fucking simple in 1 week you can retire , consider you play very casual and lets say 2 weeks.
You can play with mid-tier equips and make money easily but even if you fail at this or you really want to be a plated guy asap just retire and sell your heirloom point.
It's worth 400-500k you can afford any gear and any repair with that money for long enough.

We need upkeep because plate amrour and all other valuable shits are meant to be used by rich knights or landholders not for common peasants.It's not our problem that you don't have noble blood in your veins newbie.
Either put some effort in this game or gtfo no one needs you to play this game anyway.

Offline TurmoilTom

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Re: Why do we even need upkeep anymore?
« Reply #439 on: August 25, 2012, 11:57:01 pm »
+3
It is very fucking simple in 1 week you can retire , consider you play very casual and lets say 2 weeks.

Are we playing the same game? I feel like I play this game religiously and it takes at least a month for me to retire.

Offline Taser

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Re: Why do we even need upkeep anymore?
« Reply #440 on: August 26, 2012, 12:19:27 am »
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Are we playing the same game? I feel like I play this game religiously and it takes at least a month for me to retire.

Using the crpg calc pack, to retire at gen 1, it takes 74 hours and 6 minutes. (It does state that its only accurate to lvl 30 and the time I'm giving is based on an average of x2 multi).

That's 4446 minutes to retire at gen 1 with an average of x2 multi.

If you play 4 hours a day, it would take approximately 18.5 days to retire.

So for people that can roll a x5 constantly on siege/battle, this doesn't really apply especially since they're most likely multiple gens with extra xp per tick. However, getting a gen in a week seems very quick.
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Offline Allers

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Re: Why do we even need upkeep anymore?
« Reply #441 on: August 26, 2012, 12:20:39 am »
-1
WHO SAYS WE EVER NEEDED UPKEEP
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Offline Gozer the Carpathian

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Re: Why do we even need upkeep anymore?
« Reply #442 on: August 26, 2012, 12:39:04 am »
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Using the crpg calc pack, to retire at gen 1, it takes 74 hours and 6 minutes. (It does state that its only accurate to lvl 30 and the time I'm giving is based on an average of x2 multi).

That's 4446 minutes to retire at gen 1 with an average of x2 multi.

If you play 4 hours a day, it would take approximately 18.5 days to retire.

So for people that can roll a x5 constantly on siege/battle, this doesn't really apply especially since they're most likely multiple gens with extra xp per tick. However, getting a gen in a week seems very quick.

Add in goofing up and respecing half-way through and you can see how I have about a month and still Gen 1.  Nowhere Near a week thank you.

Say I'm QQing that's fine but you're not helping your case any.  I already admitted I'm a newb and that's the point isn't it?

I DID the work to get my gear I already said I did that grind.  I understood that grind and put in my time twice basically (because I screwed up my build the first time and found my real play style).  IF the game is designed to be a grind and require you to work 5 times longer or always be on and have a 5X multiplier or what have you that's fine.  I'm just pointing out that it does NOT do well to garner newer players.

It works fine for those who have been in the game forever.  Who have stash of cash or what not.  I have even said that the upkeep is just fine when I'm rolling well. 

What I have said is that when you're doing poorly it punishes you on top of you having done poorly in the first place.  That's a double punishment for no real reason for the NEW players. 

Am I asking to be rolling around in plate with a super armored horse?  No.  I've told you my modest set-up and obviously that must be too good for everyone to be rolling around in when doing poorly.  Again my point isn't that there should be NO upkeep, my point is there should be some way to adjust it so it's not so punishing when you're doing poorly. 

Finally if the mod WANTS to be a grindfest and hardcore only dedicated players that's fine.  I accept that.  But if you want to get newer players in here you might want to adjust the upkeep.  Because obviously the upkeep isn't keep YOU guys out of what you want, it's only effecting those of us who aren't "dedicated" or multi-generational which if that's the point so be it. 

Oh I have a 116 polearm WPF. 
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Offline Gozer the Carpathian

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Re: Why do we even need upkeep anymore?
« Reply #443 on: August 26, 2012, 12:58:53 am »
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And here's my current cash.  I have bought NOTHING since the German Poleaxe. 

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And here's all I have.  I keep most of this stuff as back-up for broken items or when I'm rolling in cheaper gear. 
They call me Yee...

Offline Lichen

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Re: Why do we even need upkeep anymore?
« Reply #444 on: August 26, 2012, 01:02:15 am »
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And here's my current cash.  I have bought NOTHING since the German Poleaxe. 

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And here's all I have.  I keep most of this stuff as back-up for broken items or when I'm rolling in cheaper gear.
Using that gear with only 3600 gold left? Smart.

Offline Gozer the Carpathian

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Re: Why do we even need upkeep anymore?
« Reply #445 on: August 26, 2012, 01:10:11 am »
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Using that gear with only 3600 gold left? Smart.

I was at about 9k Gold when I started.  That's the point of this discussion. 

Again if the design is to force me to have 50K G reserve BEFORE I can regularly use this set-up then that's fine.  If there's a lower armor that'll let me maintain a good upkeep balance with that weapon then I'll switch to lower gear to get it.  Again that's fine but if I wasn't coming here as a new player I would not know that.  I'd just be screwed going "WTF MATE THIS MOD IS SHEET!" 

As I'm not, I'm trying to get this worked out and suggest that hey, maybe screwing over new players who just spent 60 some hours (as calculated earlier) earning the level and gear isn't always a good way to KEEP those players. 

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Well, with 2.8 k your equipment is quite expensive. I played in 2 - 2.6 k (depending on which weapon, armor always the same) the whole evening now and made around 30 k gold plus. Try a loadout with 2 k max (so just take a medium armor and a cheaper helmet) but keep your weapon.

Ah okay.  So heavier than my Stepp armor but definitely lighter than what I've got going here? Fair enough.  Thanks! 
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Offline Gozer the Carpathian

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Re: Why do we even need upkeep anymore?
« Reply #446 on: August 26, 2012, 01:21:37 am »
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Yeah. Right now I lost about 3 k in a few maps, and switched to my medium loadtout (only 1.8 k). I´m ALWAYS make money with it even with x1 for some maps.

Ah fair enough.  That's what happened to me just last night.  :) 

Okay so I'll swap out my lighter armor.  Do you have a suggestion for a medium armor that'd go with my poleaxe?  I think the Stepp is too light for my mistake level. (I.e. I die too easy. :p)
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Offline Leshma

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Re: Why do we even need upkeep anymore?
« Reply #447 on: August 26, 2012, 01:22:15 am »
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And here's my current cash.  I have bought NOTHING since the German Poleaxe. 

(click to show/hide)
And here's all I have.  I keep most of this stuff as back-up for broken items or when I'm rolling in cheaper gear.

You're new and because of that you should use longest weapons that have good swing damage. Try using Glaive (cheaper than German Poleaxe) or Great Long Bardiche (more expensive but better for you) or just Long Bardiche which is a bargain at 7k gold.

I doubt you can utilize high thrust damage on German Poleaxe.

As for armor, that's a bit too expensive. You should retire twice and try to save at least 100k gold. With 100k and two loom points you should be able to find some +3 gloves, if you're lucky.

With +3 gloves you can use ligher and less expensive armor but have the same protection.

Btw. your setup has 54 body armor for the cost of 18.6k.

Using this:

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    +

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you'll have 50 body armor (4 less than your setup) for only 12k gold which is 33% less upkeep. Also both of those items won't break at the same time all the time.

If you want more armor you can use these gloves:

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which is still slightly bellow your setup in cost and only if both items break at the same time (which won't happen that often). You'll have just 1 armor point less (53 body armor) and looks way better imo.

Offline Lichen

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Re: Why do we even need upkeep anymore?
« Reply #448 on: August 26, 2012, 01:23:31 am »
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I was at about 9k Gold when I started.  That's the point of this discussion. 

Again if the design is to force me to have 50K G reserve BEFORE I can regularly use this set-up then that's fine.  If there's a lower armor that'll let me maintain a good upkeep balance with that weapon then I'll switch to lower gear to get it.  Again that's fine but if I wasn't coming here as a new player I would not know that.  I'd just be screwed going "WTF MATE THIS MOD IS SHEET!" 
Do people really just continue to use the same stuff and wonder why they are still broke?

Offline Gozer the Carpathian

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Re: Why do we even need upkeep anymore?
« Reply #449 on: August 26, 2012, 01:27:02 am »
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Okay I'll run around with this until I retire then.  Maybe I'll even sell the Lamillar and work up to your suggestions Leshma.  Thanks for the tips! :)

This is what I swap to when I'm losing money anyway so hopefully with some tweaks I'll be fine. :)
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