Some toughts about the new patch and balancement policy

[Sharky]

I never whined about the changes, and i find that the crpg with the last patches is really improving.
But i find that some of the changes in the last patch are wrong or too harsh.
1) Crossbows. Xbows before the patch wasn't op at all, you couldn't oneshot anybody, they were damn slow to reload, not accurate and the shot slow. But they were useful as close support weapon and for hybrid chars that didn't want to invest too much skills and wpf in archery.
Now with the archery buff and the xbow nerf (and increased prices) there's really no reason to go for xbows, you spend less money mantaining an horse 

2)Horses. Ok the loc was quite Op. Also i know isn't fun to see so much cavalry. But i think that before nerfing the speed and manouver, you should think that many people has huge cash reserves, that's why you see plated guys going on chargers. Allow the time to do the work, and they will sooner or later finish money and you will see a lot less horses without need to nerfing horses, that have to be effective. I think you should buff their effectivness while raising the costs so nobody can always fight on horse but when he does he is devastating.


3)Katanas. Why the katana buff? They were already the faster two hand weapon, and very cost effective. Now most of the 2handers goes with those damn fast katana, it's really annoying.

4) Archery. The archers were indeed nerfed too harsly, but now i fear they will end up being op, seeing the huge buff in damage. We'll see.

Overall, i think the balancements done are sometimes too harsh, and you end up with one class/weapon changing suddenly from slightly overpowered to vastly underpowered. Do the changes more gradually, you will disappoint less people and balance better the game 

[Babelfish]

3)Katanas. Why the katana buff? They were already the faster two hand weapon, and very cost effective. Now most of the 2handers goes with those damn fast katana, it's really annoying.

Pre-patch

Bastard Sword:

weight 1.8
requirement 9
spd rtng 99
weapon length 101
swing damage 35, cut
thrust damage 23 pierce
1,886 gold

Katana:

weight 2
requirement 9
spd rtng 101
weapon length 95
swing damage 36, cut
thrust damage 18 pierce

9212 gold

Bastard-sword was arguable the better of the two, and at a much lower price. Longsword was superior and still more cost efficiently.

Now its more balanced, katana is a fast sword with low range/damage. Its unique, and mainly used by a certain build/people. However its easier to preform on a battle server with a more powerful sword.

[Sharky]

Pre-patch

Bastard-sword was arguable the better of the two, and at a much lower price. Longsword was superior and still more cost efficiently.

Now its more balanced, katana is a fast sword with low range/damage. Its unique, and mainly used by a certain build/people. However its easier to preform on a battle server with a more powerful sword.

It's too fast compared to the other 2handers that's why most of 2handers use it now. You can block the first strike and then spam at hell, those masterwork katana are lightning fast.

[Gorath]

Well I feel that:

Archery-  In a good spot now.  Feels balanced.  RoF is good at level and can hybrid decent melee fairly easily.

Xbows-  Feel just a smidge on the "meh-why not go throwing/archery instead" side.  Since damage seemed to be an issue, could possibly stand a small accuracy buff or reload speed buff (not too much, just a pinch).

2hers- As always feel incredibly strong, but the lolstab is more manageable.  Still there, just a little less pronounced.  Still the easiest role to start getting kills as.  Level 10 is fully capable of gaining positive kdr's.

Polearms-  Still very versatile, still very strong, alot more spearmen and pikemen out there which I believe is a great thing.  Still feels 2nd to 2hers in 1v1's but that's ok given their versatility.

1hers- In a better place due to the lower overall armor.  1hers by themselves are in a fairly good spot for once.

Shields-  The size nerf is awesome.  When I'm on my shielder (6 shield skill so far, working on 7) I get lit up by ranged weapons, it's crazy (in a good way).  They still feel too slow in melee overall but as always we deal with it and use superior footwork/timing.

Horses- Still strong, more vunerable.  Honestly probably a bit too high of a cost given their vunerable position at the moment.  The unarmored horses could probably use a small price reduction.  Other than that, in a good place.

Throwing-  As crazy as it sounds (because I was always a promoter that throwing was fine and needed no nerfs) it feels a bit strong right now.  Everyone and their brother is going crazy with daggers and darts making xbows look like nerf guns.  Not sure why, maybe it's because everyone is in less armor, or there's been an accuracy buff on throwing somewhere, but it's now the far better choice over xbows and almost bows (except for long range shooting).  Perhaps a slight damage nerf is in order (sadly).

Movement-  For some reason feels overall slower... which isn't a bad thing, except it still seems like armor weight doesn't impede movement speed enough given the protection buff it provides.  The game feels kind of like it's playing in a big jello mold sometimes.  Might be a server thing though....

Overall, diggin the game/patch completely.  Just a few minor things I would tweak if it were up to me.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

The game feels kind of like it's playing in a big jello mold sometimes.  Might be a server thing though....

lol, yeah that has allways been a part of warband. 

Funny I have that regurlarly since its release on siege map 3 (don't know what it got called finally).

[Kaliffen]

+1

[Food]

I agree pretty much, I think archery is balanced nicely, but throwing can be a bit overkill at times.

I wish that movement speed was based more on athletics and armor weight than it is now. I have a 21str 23agi character (named after you  ) who has 0 athletics, there is no way he should be leading or even keeping up with the pack in plate armor. It's a significant amount of agility but I shouldn't be anywhere near that fast.

I will rage against polearms until the day I die.

[Trout4711]

Throwing-  As crazy as it sounds (because I was always a promoter that throwing was fine and needed no nerfs) it feels a bit strong right now.  Everyone and their brother is going crazy with daggers and darts making xbows look like nerf guns.  Not sure why, maybe it's because everyone is in less armor, or there's been an accuracy buff on throwing somewhere, but it's now the far better choice over xbows and almost bows (except for long range shooting).  Perhaps a slight damage nerf is in order (sadly).

 


Called it! 

[Perry]

No to all of those, crossbows did one shot low str people (100pierce + bolt, how can you not one shot?). ''I think you should buff their effectivness while raising the costs so nobody can always fight on horse but when he does he is devastating.'' That's just insane, why shouldn't people have horses? Katana is just slightly faster than other weapons, considering dmg and reach it's not op at all. ''huge buff in damage''? 2-4dmg isn't huge. It's nothing compared to the big nerf.

[AssPunisher]

Xbows-  Feel just a smidge on the "meh-why not go throwing/archery instead" side.

Maybe because archery requires Power Draw? Archers' main weapon is a bow (for hybrid builds spending more points on melee then arhcery is wasting points on archery) while xbow is a secondary weapon for melee class. You can't turn xbows to be a better weapon of choice for ranged without turning archers (ranged dedicated class so to speak - PD) into obsolete class.

EDIT
Until we see PD as the requirement for xbows instead of PS I say its fine as it is.

[Spawny]

Not sure how others feel this, but I feel like I have to relearn playing a 1h/shielder.
For some reason, my timing is just a tad off and I miss. This often results in my death.

It's not the agility, I have the same as before the patch, so it has to do something with the drop in wpf I guess. 150 wpf with plate pre-patch felt faster than 137 wpf post-patch in heraldic mail.

Archers don't bother me much (heavy board shield), but in melee fights I now get hit from angles I used to block just fine.

I think I have some training to do.

On throwing, the reason it feels OP is because of the sheer amount of people using throwing weapons and the (previously) 0 PT requirement for throwing daggers.
The accuracy wasn't buffed, but due to the overall lower armour you can use low PT weapons which are quite accurate with high PT.
Throwing darts for instance, have a near virgin tight reticule at PT 10+. Throwing daggers, rocks, snowflakes and stuff have a closed reticule at those PT levels.

[Sharky]

No to all of those, crossbows did one shot low str people (100pierce + bolt, how can you not one shot?). ''I think you should buff their effectivness while raising the costs so nobody can always fight on horse but when he does he is devastating.'' That's just insane, why shouldn't people have horses? Katana is just slightly faster than other weapons, considering dmg and reach it's not op at all. ''huge buff in damage''? 2-4dmg isn't huge. It's nothing compared to the big nerf.

They didn't do 100 pierce, anyway the damage might seems insane but i assure you that you didn't oneshot anyone with those after the 2.00 patch, just naked peasants without ironflesh (maybe) dunno why but xbow damage is bugged, there's no way that an xbow really deals 80 pierce.
And anyway why somebody should spend 12.000 cash mantaining an heavy xbow doesn't oneshot anyone (often you need 3 shots to armoured guys) and is painfully slow and inaccurate compared to bows? I think you could forget seeing xbows in strategus too since they are simply not cost effective

I think cavalry should  be rare, no more then 20% of the team, but should be really strong on open field, i think it's better to raise the costs then nerf the horse speed(but well yeah maybe they are already enough expensive as of now)

[Mala]

... Katana is just slightly faster than other weapons, considering dmg and reach it's not op at all. ''huge buff in damage''? 2-4dmg isn't huge. It's nothing compared to the big nerf.

One point more damage can become a few more, if you add all of the damage modifiers.