War Bow (Less HAs?)

[Bulzur]

I don't care about the war bow, it gives a bad feeling. If you've got 6 PD, just go for longbow.

What i mourn everyday, is that foot archers with 5 PD (agi build) are less interesting than HA build or 6 PD build.

I would really appreciate seing a 5 PD bow, with better stats than strongbow AND Not usable on horseback
or make the strongbow not usable on horseback and add another 5 PD weaker than the strongbow but available on horseback.

The way it is, it really forces archers to go either HA or Longbow. I understand that none uses the hunting bow, but what's the point of having a warbow, and what's the point of making a footarcher with 5 PD.

And all thoses people saying "it's easy to kill an ha horse and then kill the archer" really should consider what they call easy. It's certainly as "easy" as headshotting in close-mid distance an aware ninja. It happens, you need at least 6 arrows for it. But against HA, you ALSO need to move not to die. Specially when both you and he have the same MW strongbow.

[Glyph]

HA's are fine because....

You need to invest a lot of skills to shoot the bow accurately (4 Horse Archery - 24 Agility)

AND

Dedicated range can easily kill them.

A longbowmen can 1-2 shot a HA's horse, then they become a light archer.

This remains true to historical weaknesses of horse archers and remains true in the game.

but a decent HA avoids ranged warriors and so getting his horse killid while he kills every freaking horse in the game !!!!!

[Malaclypse]

but a decent HA avoids ranged warriors and so getting his horse killid while he kills every freaking horse in the game !!!!!

And a decent cav will avoid HA's or at least lure them into range of his teams ranged units.

[Kafein]

And a decent cav will avoid HA's or at least lure them into range of his teams ranged units.

"his teams ranged units" usually seem not able to shoot the HA, or simply don't care. That's not their problem, afterall. Really, that's a bit stupid to have a class that can only be followed and killed by... another char of that same class

[HentziTheHun]

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[Overdriven]

Sigh...making the strongbow 2 slots is simply silly. It's a weak bow.

HA's are designed to take down enemy cavalry. It's a hell of a lot harder to shoot infantry, so enemy cavalry is the natural choice. Besides, it takes a pure dedicated HA build to actually sucessfully be HA. That's a lot of dedicated points that means you're pretty crap in any other capacity.

If cavalry goes off and charges on it's own (say towards afk players at spawn), then you are going to get shot down because HA will hunt you. If cav was sensible and supported your infantry, rather than being lone heroes, then it wouldn't happen. If you want to go off on your own and hunt people, you've got to deal with the consequences if you see HA around.

HA don't get points for shooting horses down. We do it because enemy cav are rather effective at reducing a teams chance to win...therefore it's our impreative to shoot down your horse (plus there's a sadistic pleasure in shooting down lancers horses...you can almost hear the screams of rage ). Unfortunately for you, horse archers are kinda there to be annoying. It takes a lot of dedication, arrows and skill to get a high amount of kills. So instead, it is far easier to simply be a nuisance and take out enemy horses because they are the ones doing a lot of killing. It's one of the reasons I support some kind of assist system.

Horses however, are easy to hit regardless. Making the strongbow 2 slots wouldn't make a difference to horses being shot down. 15 arrows (if bodkin). It takes a maximum of 4 arrows. Horses are big targets. You do the math.

Besides...because HA is such a dedicated build, you rarely see them as it is. There's no point changing a bow just to try and nerf a few guys who actually play it. When you do see them, maybe you should change tactics to increase your surviveability (rather than trying to charge off as cav on your own).

[Malaclypse]

If cavalry goes off and charges on it's own (say towards afk players at spawn), then you are going to get shot down because HA will hunt you. If cav was sensible and supported your infantry, rather than being lone heroes, then it wouldn't happen. If you want to go off on your own and hunt people, you've got to deal with the consequences if you see HA around.

This is what I'm saying, man. +1

[Glyph]

And a decent cav will avoid HA's or at least lure them into range of his teams ranged units.

i always try that but: the HA can keep up with me and, the HA kills my horse before i reach my friends and if i would, they'd still have to aim, shoot and hit, so not really a good tactic, unless you don't have any other anti-HA tactics...

can you guys name some anti-HA tactics? just for everyone who isn't HA and then the HA's can say what they would do against it

[Havoc134]

Make the strong bow unusable on horseback. Foot archers get their 5 pd 1 slot bow and agi-accuracy build. Horse archers are slightly less attractive when left to use the khergit bow. Problem solved? I haven't been an archer in a long time so I'm not certain how fair this would be.

[Miley]

Make the Strong Bow unusable on horseback? You want to make this mod even more unrealistic?

[Bulzur]

Make the Strong Bow unusable on horseback? You want to make this mod even more unrealistic?

Realistic ? How will that make it unrealistic, and since when do we care so much about realism ?

Anyway, PD 5 is a viable build for HA, so two possibilities :
-Add a 5 PD bow unusable on horseback, with slighty better stats than the strongbow, so that footarchers build at 5 PD arn't forced to go HA, or go 6 PD.
-Add a 5 PD bow usable on horseback, with slightly less interesting stats than strongbow, and make strongbow unusable on horseback.


The way it is, every 5 PD archer build is more effective with 3 less PS and Ath, and 3 more riding and horse archery. Makes all foot archers go 6 PD and use a longbow (since it's better to kill everything).

[Rumblood]

i always try that but: the HA can keep up with me and, the HA kills my horse before i reach my friends and if i would, they'd still have to aim, shoot and hit, so not really a good tactic, unless you don't have any other anti-HA tactics...

can you guys name some anti-HA tactics? just for everyone who isn't HA and then the HA's can say what they would do against it

I don't know if you noticed or not, but you SPAWN with your friends. You are conveniently leaving out the part where you are trying to spawn rush the afk'ers for easy kills. 

[Miley]

I'm saying having a small bow such as the Strong Bow take two slots is unrealistic.

[Tennenoth]

I said make the War Bow one slot, not the Long Bow.

Read the post properly. I was talking about the war bow and merely stated that if you make the war bow one slot, make the longbow one slot too, although I said slow the first time round. Please read more carefully about what I wrote...

[HuskerRall]

DO NOT MESS with the bows anymore, especially with Strong Bow, leave it 1 slot please

I have an alt: Foot Archer + Two handed + Thrower

I use to happily play equiping:

strong bow
bodkin arrow
two handed sword
javelins

then the slot system came in and had to choose between being an archer or being a swordsman with javelins and you people messed with the javelins too, made them 2 slots and only 3 ammo count now I'm fine with that, I adapted to the main 3 scenarios with those limitations, bow + 2h sword, bow + javelins, 2h sword + javelins

It's sad how lolpoles affect the course of cRPG, whose crpg experience and gameplay is all about running, swinging and hacking away dressed in plated armour without even blocking and don't wanting to deal with archers or any other ranged units