Shield skill requires STR instead of AGI, and Crossbows require powerdraw.

[BlackxBird]

:O really? Well my neighbour has one and well it wasn't that easy for me :3

[Panos_]

Ok, I will justify why I think those two tweaks are needed.


First of all, as Grumbs mentioned already, crossbowing is the only class that apart from the WPF, doesnt require anything else, which makes it the best ranged weapon for hybrid builds.

Throwing and Bows require power throw, and power draw, which means  things.

If you are a thrower and want to inflict serious damage, rather than trolling, you need to spend at least 6 points into power throw, which leaves you with 3 less attribute skills, or 0 IF.

The same applies for archery.



So yeah, power draw for crossbows is a must.


Now regarding the shields, don`t you find it redicoulus that a guy with 3 STR can carry a huscarl shield? And apart from that, high agility shielders receive 2 bonuses.

1. High speed bonus damage, due to the high agility/athletics
2. Durable shields


On the other hand, high damage is justified, because the player invested on a Strength build, so yeah, I prefer strong shielder because of their build, rather than left swing spammers.

[Gravoth_iii]

Now regarding the shields, don`t you find it redicoulus that a guy with 3 STR can carry a huscarl shield? And apart from that, high agility shielders receive 2 bonuses.

1. High speed bonus damage, due to the high agility/athletics
2. Durable shields


On the other hand, high damage is justified, because the player invested on a Strength build, so yeah, I prefer strong shielder because of their build, rather than left swing spammers.

Damage difference is not that big, but i think strenght shielder hits a bit harder. And who uses huscarl shield with 3 str? that defeats the whole purpose of being high agi when weighing you down so much. Also like i said, barely anyone goes beyond 5 shield skill, so shields are basically just as durable for both str and agi whores.

[Ikarus]

so if we´re really realistic, arbalest needs 0 strength then? 

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does xbow then get damage bonus or what? Because damage bonus would make no sense.

and if xbow additionally needs power draw without getting any bonuses, people will just switch to thrower or archer

because then, the amount of points you would have to shove into this class would be upright RUBBISH

of course it would be realistic, but the amount of points wouldn´t be worth the efficiency. All other classes would be easier to play then.
 A lot of things aren´t realistic in mount and blade, but some things would destroy the balance. No lousy arrow would ever penetrate a plate armor, etc...

and I´m not saying all of this because I´m an xbow myself 


crossbows were used by the french because everybody was able to use it and it needed less training than archery. I think medieval men were in general stronger than people today, so a simple STR restriction is fine

[WITCHCRAFT]

You don't need to reload a bow or throwing weapon after each shot. Holy shit dude.

[Nightmare798]

Because XBows are the only thing in the game with 0 requirements. You don't even need to dedicate all your WPF into them. While other builds might need to sacrifice something for their ranged ability for the sake of balance, xbowers lose next to nothing

You can shoot three arrows for every crossbow bolt. I think that is penalty enough.

Also I agree on shields, Why the fuck not.

[Algarn]

You can shoot three arrows for every crossbow bolt. I think that is penalty enough.

Depends of the bow, the crossbow, and the builds used for each. If you use a regular crossbow with high wpf, you'll spam bolts.

[Ikarus]

Depends of the bow, the crossbow, and the builds used for each. If you use a regular crossbow with high wpf, you'll spam bolts.

yeh, with normal xbow a couple of low dmg bolts. And for that much wpf on xbow, you´ll be pretty useless, or at least very weak, in melee. A bow would still be more efficient for that kind of work 

[jtobiasm]

Stevie wonder could kill a cunt with a crossbow their that easy to use

[WITCHCRAFT]

Depends of the bow, the crossbow, and the builds used for each. If you use a regular crossbow with high wpf, you'll spam bolts.

I've done a couple gens as 180+ WPF regular crossbow builds. It's nice to be able to wear medium-heavy armor and still have crazy reload speed/accuracy. However, the same build for archery will shoot faster with ANY bow than you can reload that xbow.

I've done pure xbow, pure arbalest, hybrid xbow, hybrid archer, 24/18 archer, 18/24 archer, and most recently 18/30 archer (210 WPF with a yumi, would recommend). Each has their own strong and weak points. Crossbows are more expensive to upkeep, have to be reloaded between shots, and have a lower absolute limit to their power. They don't require skill point investment, and don't lose accuracy as you hold a shot.

IMO, they are easier to use but have a lower skill ceiling than bows do. The two weapon types are pretty balanced, and adding a powerdraw requirement to crossbows would mess things up.

[Panos_]

You don't need to reload a bow or throwing weapon after each shot. Holy shit dude.

If the power draw skill gets added for xbowing aswell, the more Power Draw you have, the faster you will reload you xbow.

Thats how you balance the nerf.

[Algarn]

Even tho that mod is ded and blabla, it's worth looking at it. Making a poll would be good too.

[Grumbs]

so if we´re really realistic, arbalest needs 0 strength then? 

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does xbow then get damage bonus or what? Because damage bonus would make no sense.

and if xbow additionally needs power draw without getting any bonuses, people will just switch to thrower or archer

because then, the amount of points you would have to shove into this class would be upright RUBBISH

of course it would be realistic, but the amount of points wouldn´t be worth the efficiency. All other classes would be easier to play then.
 A lot of things aren´t realistic in mount and blade, but some things would destroy the balance. No lousy arrow would ever penetrate a plate armor, etc...

and I´m not saying all of this because I´m an xbow myself 


crossbows were used by the french because everybody was able to use it and it needed less training than archery. I think medieval men were in general stronger than people today, so a simple STR restriction is fine

These are kind of red herrings imo. This is not being presented as a "realism" argument, its purely about game balance. Maybe you can shoehorn in some realism arguments but that is very secondary

The other red herring is the idea that xbows wouldn't get a damage bonus from having to put points into power draw. Bows and throwing all have reduced damage that is then increased based on how many points you add. The same thing would happen with xbows (base damage reduced while current damage would be there for people who put in about 5-6 points like archers/throwers do, and each point of PD would reduce your WPF a bit). Not that it matters that much though, you can just balance the damage based on the PD requirement

Currently the trade off against archers is increased damage/stun, lower weight, less WPF needed to be accurate and easier points & click shooting mechanics in exchange for slower reload speed. Not saying archers and throwers are well balanced against melee, or even have good intra ranged balance but xbowers have historically got the easy ride when it comes to ranged classes

[Ikarus]

If the power draw skill gets added for xbowing aswell, the more Power Draw you have, the faster you will reload you xbow.

So I´d take away 2 points from my IF and 2 points from my PS, resulting in 4 PS, 4 IF. If I´m funny I´d even take away 3 points from each, so I could put 6 points onto power draw. Then I´d put 4-6 points into power draw and would be able to reload my arbalest as fast as heavy xbow or faster.

Xbows. Xbows everywhere. Imagine a build with barely wpf in xbow, but tons of points in power draw and high athletics. Shotgun runner.

I´m a bit afraid that this solution will bring up another bunch of problems. Anyways, most important imo is the teambalance and server lag fix.

base damage reduced while current damage would be there for people who put in about 5-6 points like archers/throwers do

interesting idea, but I don´t wanna be the guy who has to balance that one out