I love Oberyn.....

[Molly]

Simple questions (and I guess you'll get the Noble Prize if you manage to figure it out ):

What are we supposed to do with the thousands of people fleeing war and radical muslims to Europe just on a single weekend?

Personally, I don't think that anyone has the power to even reduce immigration when a huge region is riddled by war and terror. So, how will you reduce immigration?

Questions seem simple enough. The answers are probably the hardest thing to come by for next 1 or 2 decades.


On a side note: I agree with Brokar on the ghetto outskirts sentiment. Easily observable in Germany with the Turkish people. Those who grow up in well-mixed classes in school from an early age integrate just fine (mostly). Those growing up in a local region of the city with exaggerated 90% immigrants suddenly lack language and education, integrate barely.
For that simply observation I think blaming religion only or mostly is the actual dumb thing to do.

[Admerius]

Integration is the problem:

Solutions:
-Decrease immigration(be labeled: nat.socialist/racist/nationalist)
-Improve integration efforts so that it is more effective, and thus partly compulsory(be labeled: Close-minded/Anti-multiculturalist/Cultural Imperialist)
-Stuff them in ghettos and blame it on previous government's policies(Be labeled: Open minded/compassionate/a role model)
-Don't give a shit and mind your own business(Be labeled: nothing at all)

I say fuck party politics regarding this problem...
Party politics<Long term "National"(EU/World) interests

My idea of a good solution is to improve the integration process to that degree that it matches the immigration level. During this process a TEMPORARY cutback to the immigration MUST be done unless some billionaires want to donate to this effort. After all... it needs funding, but who wants to pay MORE taxes and at the same time not getting any real immediate benefits for themselves or their "financial kin"(their business/family/golf clubs etc.)?

I do love Oberyn, but from what I've read I don't know his exact stance on this.

[Panos_]

Funniest thing is that you northener europeans think that you actually have a real immigration problem.

Everyday, 4000 immigrants "invade" Greece from the Turkish coast lines, with the blessing of the Turks of course, and they already cause way to much trouble here.

WhatS even funnier than my previous statement, is that the rest of the european nations, point their fingers towards Greece and Italy, because we don`t "treat" the immigrants nice, but when Greece wants to give european asylum to the aliens, the German government refuses it, and now Greece has more than 2 mil. aliens.

I don`t know, but if my country was attacked , I`d prefer to stay and fight, rather than flee...

[Molly]

I agree that the current immigration policy of "They stay where they entered the EU" is bullshit.
That is leaving Greece and I believe Italy even more just alone with the issue. That is not okay.

Even distributing the immigrants equally all over Europe - maybe even by lottery - seems more fair to everyone involved than how it is handled now.
That is probably something Panos and I can agree upon.

[the real god emperor]

Funniest thing is that you northener europeans think that you actually have a real immigration problem.

Everyday, 4000 immigrants "invade" Greece from the Turkish coast lines, with the blessing of the Turks of course, and they already cause way to much trouble here.

WhatS even funnier than my previous statement, is that the rest of the european nations, point their fingers towards Greece and Italy, because we don`t "treat" the immigrants nice, but when Greece wants to give european asylum to the aliens, the German government refuses it, and now Greece has more than 2 mil. aliens.

I don`t know, but if my country was attacked , I`d prefer to stay and fight, rather than flee...

Meh, we dont need visa to get on the aegean islands.Besides, everyday hundreds of Greeks are getting caught by coast guards

[Tore]

I still don't understand the point of immigration. We don't need them and they don't need us. It's just a game, you might get to immigrate to an European country where you can work in an illegal workplace with your fellow countrymen for slave wages. Of course you want your children to be brought up by the same morals as you did, so you send them to a school with pupils from all over your home country where they learn your language, culture and morals. And then, where is the multiculturalism? Multiculturalism can only exist if the immigrant population is a very small and they assimilate to the main population. People will naturally seperate, just like the European immigrants did in America.

[ecorcheur_brokar]

Simple questions (and I guess you'll get the Noble Prize if you manage to figure it out ):

What are we supposed to do with the thousands of people fleeing war and radical muslims to Europe just on a single weekend?

Personally, I don't think that anyone has the power to even reduce immigration when a huge region is riddled by war and terror. So, how will you reduce immigration?

Questions seem simple enough. The answers are probably the hardest thing to come by for next 1 or 2 decades.

What I would do but that is just day-dreaming:
As hope is the thing driving people to try to cross the border at the risk of their own death.

The EU should instore a lottery where you can gain an access to Europe with facilitated naturalisation (like a bonus, the naturalisation would not be granted). The price of a ticket would be approximately based on the price of what they would pay to smugglers (around 700 euro). The money would not be spent on smugglers and it would pay for a help to settle in their own country and to send back illegal immigrants. The chance of winning would be very small (less than those of successing with illegal immigration but there is no risk of dying). The ticket would be sold only near the area of crisis, so no migration movement. People can try it many times, so they have to work in their own country to pay it and eventually they settle where they work and decide to stop trying.

On the other hand, the reason immigrants try to go to Europe and not any other country in the world is because they receive better treatement in Europe. So those who would still be coming by illegal immigration would be put in jail while waiting for being sent back with the lottery money.

However this plan should be applied only to economic immigrants not war victims. There should be an international agreement on war victim where they are spread equaly in every country.

This is cold and harsh but as you said there is not many solutions. And however it will never be applied, too cold for any politician to propose it.

[Siiem]

...this just gave me a good idea for a poll...... 

Well, you are bundle of sticks. my old friendgit

[Tagora]

Maybe it's far enough away from you that the only possible way to reach these conclusions is through abstract intellectual endeavours such as books, but this is just my fucking reality. Even fucking "élite" muslims who come to France to study in the Grandes Ecoles are blatantly open about it, much less the average ghetto racaille. I don't need a fucking book to reach these conclusions, just years of personal anecdotes and experience.

He's hardly an intellectual.

[Molly]

Whoa whoa whoa, leave Britain out of this. Cant comment on France because some of the descriptions here sound like an entirely different reality to anything I've ever seen in Britain.

There are a lot of immigrants from all manner of places in Britain, but if we're on Islam there's still not enough to even dent the native population (even in places like Birmingham). I posted the demographics elsewhere in response to the 'There are some places in Britain where non-muslims simply don't go' idiot Fox-news guy who later apologised for inventing facts, but we're still a predominantly Christian nation.

Integration works both ways, but it doesn't have to be a scary thing. In some parts of the country we're reaping the benefits of the tolerance of our forebears 20-30 years ago with all the sexy mixed-race girls around today, we don't get sexy mixed-race girls if we crack down on immigration or put them in slums/insular communities. Think of it as an investment.

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[Kafein]

Personally, I don't think that anyone has the power to even reduce immigration when a huge region is riddled by war and terror. So, how will you reduce immigration?

First off, the immediate solution to the immediate problem of people actually fleeing is not to bring them back to whatever they are fleeing from.

The solution to the long term matter of immigration is that it will largely solve itself with time. Differential growth has been running heavily against Europe for around 20 years now. We're already seeing emergent countries holding most of the flow of immigrants (think Arab Peninsula). That and the fact that a near absence of social security and regulations greatly helps making those countries resistant to the burden of immigration, much like the US in the 18th and 19th centuries.