I love Oberyn.....

[Oberyn]

As a "loud reactionary", I would get along perfectly well with "brown" people (I'm going to guess Heskey means muslims, and being an ironically racist dumbass calls thems "brown"). I mean, I've yet to see any people as openly, unashamedly reactionary and conservative as the average muslim. Not even the farthest right wing christian neo-reactionary is anywhere as plainly honest about it. Talk about feminism? Degenerate western idiocy that is killing their families and countries, Islam will cure it. Abortion? Oh my, more degeneracy. Homosexuality? Don't even get me started. The real fun part comes when talking about jews. So many of them are basically fucking neo-chocolate chip cookies on the subject, spouting decades old "jews control the entire world and banking system crap", thinking the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is some sort of historical document. The average muslim is basically the flip side of the western reactionary, they are much, much closer than you think.
 Heskey, do you really think they vote Labour because they side with leftist dogma on these issues? Or because of one very specific issue, namely immigration? Can't fucking wait until they become an innevitable majority and naive cuck stains such as yourself finally get their eyes open. It's almost as if I didn't give a shit about their "race", just their culturally backwards bullshit. Of course Heskey knows absolutely nothing about me, it pleases him to call me a white supremacist because in his retarded fucking mind only an evil racist could ever be against noble Islam enriching our inferior western cultures. Just like Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a racist kkk grandmaster.

[Molly]

Praz Oberyn! 

[Tagora]

For someone who says they've never read Soumission...
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[Oberyn]

Maybe it's far enough away from you that the only possible way to reach these conclusions is through abstract intellectual endeavours such as books, but this is just my fucking reality. Even fucking "élite" muslims who come to France to study in the Grandes Ecoles are blatantly open about it, much less the average ghetto racaille. I don't need a fucking book to reach these conclusions, just years of personal anecdotes and experience.

[ecorcheur_brokar]

As a "loud reactionary", I would get along perfectly well with "brown" people (I'm going to guess Heskey means muslims, and being an ironically racist dumbass calls thems "brown"). I mean, I've yet to see any people as openly, unashamedly reactionary and conservative as the average muslim. Not even the farthest right wing christian neo-reactionary is anywhere as plainly honest about it. Talk about feminism? Degenerate western idiocy that is killing their families and countries, Islam will cure it. Abortion? Oh my, more degeneracy. Homosexuality? Don't even get me started. The real fun part comes when talking about jews. So many of them are basically fucking neo-chocolate chip cookies on the subject, spouting decades old "jews control the entire world and banking system crap", thinking the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is some sort of historical document. The average muslim is basically the flip side of the western reactionary, they are much, much closer than you think.
 Heskey, do you really think they vote Labour because they side with leftist dogma on these issues? Or because of one very specific issue, namely immigration? Can't fucking wait until they become an innevitable majority and naive cuck stains such as yourself finally get their eyes open. It's almost as if I didn't give a shit about their "race", just their culturally backwards bullshit. Of course Heskey knows absolutely nothing about me, it pleases him to call me a white supremacist because in his retarded fucking mind only an evil racist could ever be against noble Islam enriching our inferior western cultures. Just like Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a racist kkk grandmaster.

On this, he's not totally wrong, a bit too much generalisation for my taste but the fact is that immigrants are often more conservative than the local conservative. However if the immigrants mix up with others and that their children go to school with others than migrants, in a matter of one generation, the descant of immigrants have the same opinions than most of the population and are not at all conservative like their parents were.

[Oberyn]

Bullshit, who do you think is going to Syria by the hundreds? Who do you think is going to the mosques to get radicalized by wahhabist and salafi preachers from Saudia Arabia and Qatar? You think it's the recently immigrated workers who came here for a better life for themselves and their children? No, it's their children and grandchildren, the ones that have been for 2 or 3 generations already. It's insane arrogance to think your values are just so self-evidently right that merely being exposed to them guarantees automatic adherence. Not only is it arrogance it's just plain wrong.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

Bullshit, who do you think is going to Syria by the hundreds? Who do you think is going to the mosques to get radicalized by wahhabist and salafi preachers from Saudia Arabia and Qatar? You think it's the recently immigrated workers who came here for a better life for themselves and their children? No, it's their children and grandchildren, the ones that have been for 2 or 3 generations already. It's insane arrogance to think your values are just so self-evidently right that merely being exposed to them guarantees automatic adherence. Not only is it arrogance it's just plain wrong.

No, it is not wrong. He didn't say that every Muslim of 2nd or more generations becomes a western values saint. There are examples of muslims changing their moral views, but I agree they are sadly too few.

[Xant]

I know a Muslim who's an engineer and very "not-physical" in every way, despises violence and in general is very mellow and crap, the last guy you'd think of when someone says "terrorist." He was asked as a joke in a bar (because of his appearance and how he carried himself) what he'd do if a guy (can't remember who it was, one of the cartoonists I think) walked in through the door, and the Muslim guy got very uncomfortable but said that he'd have to at least try to kill him, because of the fatwa.

[Gnjus]

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As a "loud reactionary", I would get along perfectly well with "brown" people (I'm going to guess Heskey means muslims, and being an ironically racist dumbass calls thems "brown"). I mean, I've yet to see any people as openly, unashamedly reactionary and conservative as the average muslim. Not even the farthest right wing christian neo-reactionary is anywhere as plainly honest about it. Talk about feminism? Degenerate western idiocy that is killing their families and countries, Islam will cure it. Abortion? Oh my, more degeneracy. Homosexuality? Don't even get me started. The real fun part comes when talking about jews. So many of them are basically fucking neo-chocolate chip cookies on the subject, spouting decades old "jews control the entire world and banking system crap", thinking the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is some sort of historical document. The average muslim is basically the flip side of the western reactionary, they are much, much closer than you think.
 Heskey, do you really think they vote Labour because they side with leftist dogma on these issues? Or because of one very specific issue, namely immigration? Can't fucking wait until they become an innevitable majority and naive cuck stains such as yourself finally get their eyes open. It's almost as if I didn't give a shit about their "race", just their culturally backwards bullshit. Of course Heskey knows absolutely nothing about me, it pleases him to call me a white supremacist because in his retarded fucking mind only an evil racist could ever be against noble Islam enriching our inferior western cultures. Just like Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a racist kkk grandmaster.

...while Bloby types posts like this is exactly how I imagine a poetry in motion would look like...... 




Btw piTagora why do you have that anorexic chick for your avatar, if I may ask ? 

[Admerius]

Hear Hear!

I just want to point one flaw out in your confrontational argumentation style, Oberyn. It is not suited for internet forums such as this. The level of proficiency and terminology you apply here can easily, and wrongly, be generalized to "xenophobia, racism, misogynism etc. etc. etc." by the average forum visitor.

With that said... I find it hard to disagree with any of your statements that I've read the last year or so.

The "loud reactionary" part I agree with, and I put myself in the same camp, perhaps not the "loud" subcategory ;)
In this case however i choose to interpret the reactionary part as wanting to go back to the enlightenment values, where we as a society accept or reject people based on their expressed ideas/beliefs we do not tolerate everyone unconditionally. Before anyone misunderstands me completely, the focus should be on "ACCEPTANCE" and "NOT UNCONDITIONALLY" not on "reject people based on their expressed ideas/beliefs".

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IMO: This is not only Unacceptable in Norway, It's Un-TOLERABLE even criminal! <---Can anyone argue the case that this is a good example of "enriching western societies?"

We, as in liberal-minded people, are currently poisoned by relativism, turn the other cheek syndrome, Carrots and no sticks and all those modern self-delusional cultural redemption attitudes.

"We are the victims of our governments actions that makes us complicit in their actions. Anyone that has been wronged by us has the right to special treatment because they are victims. now look at me: am I not a good person for making myself a martyr for "justice and goodness"
This is going full retard and giving special treatment beyond what's reasonable, undermining the very values you want to stand for.

To all you extreme right-wingers out there who might want to claim this statement as reinforcing their point of view: This is a war of ideas. That means we stand and fall with our arguments and adopt those ideas that we were "defeated"(educated) by, so if you want to react violently go watch a football game and bash each other's brains out with the mantra: "My team best! You no good, I hit you for believing the same thing about your team as I believe about mine!"

In true rhetorical style I can't end on a complete downer: Counter extremism and "real" moderation by muslims for muslimshttp://www.quilliamfoundation.org/

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[Prpavi]

I know a Muslim who's an engineer and very "not-physical" in every way, despises violence and in general is very mellow and crap, the last guy you'd think of when someone says "terrorist." He was asked as a joke in a bar (because of his appearance and how he carried himself) what he'd do if a guy (can't remember who it was, one of the cartoonists I think) walked in through the door, and the Muslim guy got very uncomfortable but said that he'd have to at least try to kill him, because of the fatwa.

Best made up story 2015

[Siiem]

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[Gnjus]

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...this just gave me a good idea for a poll...... 

[ecorcheur_brokar]

Bullshit, who do you think is going to Syria by the hundreds? Who do you think is going to the mosques to get radicalized by wahhabist and salafi preachers from Saudia Arabia and Qatar? You think it's the recently immigrated workers who came here for a better life for themselves and their children? No, it's their children and grandchildren, the ones that have been for 2 or 3 generations already. It's insane arrogance to think your values are just so self-evidently right that merely being exposed to them guarantees automatic adherence. Not only is it arrogance it's just plain wrong.

Yep but that's the fault of shitty education in your country and putting all the muslims together in the same place, so they don't get integrated. Half of my muslims friends gave up islam at 18-21 years old, saying this is bullshit. And they were not only moderate muslims from balkan, some were also from afghanistan and pakistan. The other half that stayed muslims are still conservative on society matter but not more than any catholic.

But there is clearly a difference between muslims living in France and others. All of my muslims friends despise the one from France. They say the one in France are pretending to be strict and conservative but are huge hypocrite, it's alll about showing off. And that's the thing that happens when they are all put together at the border of the city. The go into big-dick competition between each other.

And yeah the preachers form Saudi Arabia are definetly a major problem. As religion are nothing but a tool to control the mind of people, western countries better be forming their own preacher just like they did for christianity rather than let saudi arabia do it.

[Thomek]

I agree with Brokar generally..

A few hundred islamists is not that great a number when muslim population in France probably numbers in the millions.

I'm not going to excuse them though, but you have to realize this is a problem of the masses and of politics. It's a matter of taking in too many, which in the case of France/Britain has to do with a past as colonial powers.

Countries that are not able to care for those they invite, just stash them in Ghettos, get what they sow. Same problem in Sweden, where the intellectual hypocrisy is staggering. They stash them out of sight, out of mind, appealing to "goodness" etc etc, while their own kids go to all white schools. It's completely retarded. I also first hand witnessed 2nd and 3rd generation muslim immigrants being completely cool kids. It mostly has to do with the environment they are brought up in. If mostly norwegian, they become practically norwegian. If mostly immigrant, they more often reproduce bad or incompatible attitudes.

I'm not for having super closed borders, but I think reducing immigration by 80% or so should be sustainable, and this is the important word: Sustainable. It's about treating both native and immigrant population with respect and dignity. Too often, most of the time, neither is the case.