Decrease levels

[MURDERTRON]

Clearly EUs should have  no input on any type of changes if their reasoning for any change is "my europoor computer or internet connection can't keep up"

[Gravoth_iii]

With 16 PS i dont oneshot anything, unless ofc they're an idiot and give me all the speed bonus by running at me, but if they did that tbh an 18/24 build would oneshot them if they had a GLB and the enemy had light armour.

It's extremely noticable, i have 37 armour most of the time cos no loomz, cos i dont think loomz should be necessary. And i always die in 2 hits. This can be 2 hits from a katana, this could also be 2 hits from a steel pick (one left swing one overhead normally). 2 hits from a generic longsword guy, 2 hits from an espada, scimitar or axe guy.

I know my build was a deliberate troll build, but i still fully expected that i'd do slightly more damage than normal with 16 PS, with the obvious tradeoff being a slow unbalanced weapon, no Wpf, and the footwork of 0athletics. Literally the easiest thing in the world to block, a 1hand swashbuckler could stand there all day and block such a build, if roles were reversed even i could block that with a sickle. The fun thing is that when i do connect i do the same damage as if i was tryharding and making athletics do all the damage for me, 'oooooooooooo look at me, i'm rocking back and forth as i swing and tuuuurning into my swings in a really exaggerated fashion!'.

Also there seems to be an exciting new meta arriving, it's called 'spam and swing so fast that Heskey's comp begins to struggle with animations and lag like crazy', it's an awesome strategy, it's where the person who spent the most on their computer wins. I think it's great that this mod has moved in more of a direction of amazingly fast unpredictable animations that only the best most stable ping and better computers can handle and reliably perform with. Truly all games should learn from our example, pffff, why make it so that all the 'casuals' can compete with their low end comps. It's hilarious that my stupid 50/3 build performs better on the duel server than siege, because i dont get insane lag.

I oneshot quite a bit with my 9PS flamberge, its all about the balance, too much PS over athl and you lose out on damage. Balance builds still rule the world.

Agi over 21 needs a big nerf. If possible i'd change the req for athletics/WM from 3 to 4, so you could get 8 in each at 32 agi. Maybe even do it for PS too

The game just isn't made for these types of builds without causing issues

Im not seeing any issues :O Why does it need a big nerf? what makes it so strong over other builds? Cause i have not seen any agibuilds stand out over str or balance since the patch.

[Leshma]

No need to nerf agi or ath stats, just limit gear available to them. Think that 24 STR should be requirement for most weapons longer than 110/120 (2h/polearms). Currently, having 18 str means 18/27 build and that's heavily agi oriented build. In no way even remotely balanced build. Balanced builds are 21/21 (for low levels and hybrids), 21/24, 24/21, 24/24. If you don't play as balanced build, you shouldn't be able to use armor heavier than 10 weight and long weapons, simple as that.

[Gravoth_iii]

Instead of nerfing, buff the counterpart. Allthough i think a 39/12 build would be just as strong as a 12/39 build. Nerfing only slows down the game and makes it less appealing to those who already know class strengths and weaknesses. Allthough decreasing skillgaps would make the game appeal more to new players, but i think its too late to try anything like that. Game is good as it is IMO, everything seems viable, while balance is still the strongest.

Yep, i saw somewhere i think San posted the tested 'optimal' build for damage and i'm fairly sure it was 27/21(27/24?) or something. It's just a shame that as you deviate in the Agi direction away from that you continue to gain speed and maintain pretty good (though lower) damage, but as you move in the Str direction you lose speed and also lose damage.

But you become tankier. Dont underestimate this, im playing str build right now and i can tank so many hits its pretty crazy (being used to agi) sometimes after a fight i tank like 5 hits and i still see my healthbar sitting nicely at 50%.

A pure str build is probably equally viable to a pure agi build. They just fill completely different roles.

[Gravoth_iii]

I know that my view amongst Str-whores is an uncommon one, because for some reason i'm constantly poor and have no loomed armour. So i'm one of few Str-whores who dont have high armour at all. Normally these discussions start from a base assumption that the agi-player has rags and the str-player has plate, or at least high armour and decent IF. As Cassia pointed out, i am extremely squishy for a str-whore xD so i normally dont take the whole 'agi characters take fewer hits' argument so seriously, but i forget that i'm in a minority who dont wear good armour.

I guess i need to remember that, Str-builds are designed with tanking and high armour/IF in mind. My view is biased by the fact that anyone RPing a ninja with or without looms, actually has more body armour than me. From that point of view i guess i expected a glass cannon build like mine to be more cannonish than it is, in exchange for being so squishy (though launching people is it's own reward). 0 IF, 36 armour and 0 athletics, i have noone to blame but myself xD

Str build in rags work, but then you also need SOME athl, pure str probably need plate armor to keep em going. I did something like 30/18 in rags, and it was surprisingly good. The damage was incredible, and i felt pretty tanky for using nothing but wool.

I guess one could say pure str is pretty bad without plate, while pure agi cant even chose to use plate, but rocks in rags.

[San]

Yeah, mostly optimized builds and sets were considered against each other. The more armor you're wearing, the more strength you'd want.

A strength build can still survive an extra hit in light armor, but you're still going down in a few hits. An agi build with high armor will take a heavy hit to wpf without sufficient IF. If you're going to be taking IF anyways, it'll just be easier to focus a bit more on strength since an agi build with 65hp in armor isn't going to tank all that much and one with 50hp isn't going to swing godly fast, just slightly faster than others in that armor.

Balanced builds get the best of everything, but the IF change helped curb off 24/24 from dominating everything, and instead going 21/24, 24/21, 18/27, or 27/18 for the most reliable pure builds.