Throwing needs to be fixed. Maintenance & movement needs work.

[San]

I'm not certain how throwing weapons can be economically viable for strat. Maybe if the ammo could be multiplied by 2-3 for strat using the same method as when they altered archers for a short while.

(Bump for more throwing discussion )

[Mendro]

This topic need a bump with the throwing weapons nerf.

I really don't understand why you nerfed them. Now pure throwing build (or at least for str build) are weak.
Reduced throwing weapons damage + pushed people to get some if = huge nerf

[Mendro]

Bump, throwing damages are joke now   

[San]

The list of throwing changes:

-All throwing weapons -1 dmg and speed because of the level increase
-Much lighter weight for most lower tier throwing weapons
-Throwing hammer +5 blunt (then -1 because of the above)

Low tier throwing weapons don't slow you down as much, so PT is a decent dump stat for melee, especially with the wpf changes where armor would take away all of your throwing proficiency. They're unviable against most melee, but are good against ranged, agi players, and mid-range support at 5-10 meters.

We'll really have to see how the game handles 33/12, 15/30, and 24/24 pure build throwers. 30ish damage per throw is no joke. Heavy cav also received armor/hp nerfs so they're comparatively easier to take down, even without the level increase.

[Mendro]

Thank for the answer san

Do you speak about changes with the last patch or the next patch?

Because :

-All throwing weapons -1 dmg and speed because of the level increase

Currently it's -2 dmg for jarids, heavy throwing axes, throwing lance and throwing spears

Low tier throwing weapons don't slow you down as much, so PT is a decent dump stat for melee, especially with the wpf changes where armor would take away all of your throwing proficiency. They're unviable against most melee, but are good against ranged, agi players

I agree, low tier throwing needed a little buff

We'll really have to see how the game handles 33/12, 15/30, and 24/24 pure build throwers

33/12 was no viable before the patch cause of slow speed, so I don't think it will change with this patch

I tried my old build 30/15 on my stf and I can tell you it's no more viable cause of 2 reasons :
- The current dmg nerf is heavy
- Global build are more agi way now . People moving too fast and it's harder to aiming now. Aiming was already difficult before the patch, but that was the price for high dmg build. I mean if I want to be more accurate I have to be really close of the enemies melee. But with 5 ath it's just a deadly way

It's nearly the same feeling with 27/18. I have a decent speed but my dmg and my accuracy still weak

[dontgothere]

devs be all like "throwing has problems because people dont like throwing because throwing has problems"

it's not a natural phenomenon, it doesnt rain shitty throwing stats on crpg when el nino blows in, it's a problem caused by conscious decisions made by biased balancing and there were always other suggestions; a few work their way into the game like a year or two after being posted, once all the new nerfs are in ofc. devs saying they wont buff throwing because nobody likes throwing is just self-fulfilling

ironically the balance would have been better and it would have been less work for the devs if they'd just left throwing weapons stats as they were before and monitored how it plays out, given it time on real servers

like i've been saying for just as many years as i was insisting throwing hammers needed a damge buff which they have only just now after literally years gotten: there needs to be more to differentiate the capabilities or hybrid throwing (short-range backup for meleers) and pure throwing (lower range alternative to bows as a main weapon for skirmishers).

[Soldier_of_God]

MY eyes are bleeding oh my god, PLEASE learn how to post like you don't have autism. thanks.

[San]

I didn't realize a few throwing weapons received -2 damage, thanks for the heads up. The bad thing about letting things play out is that there usually is an immediate outcry for a while (ex. everything people complain about) so it was a safe approach at it.

I am going to try out some throwing builds for the next few days and see how it turns out. My first thought is +1 dmg -1 (or even -2 tbqh) throwing speed so throwers can't spam as easily with the higher wpf, but maintain the high damage from the level increase.

33-15 is quite great for a non-mobile build. I'm dealing 40-50 damage to most horses with flipping Throwing Spears,  and 25-30 damage to melee. But yeah, I have to rely on my teammates so I'm not swarmed. Great fun, though.

[Xeen]

I think the last changes were really good, San.  As far as I'm concerned wardarts and the 0-slotters got a huge buff with the weight reductions despite the loss in damage(they're all about the always brutal headshots anyways).  Jarids/Spears losing some damage was necessary.  I don't think removing throwing speed would be a good change for balance and it would just contribute to an already underplayed class being less fun.  Less shots-per-second would be a good balancing mechanism, but increasing the wind-up for throws just makes it feel clunky and boring.

[Mendro]

33-15 is quite great for a non-mobile build

I'm playing it and damage still weak compare to my 30-15 build before the patch.
I understand why there is no more pure thrower now

[San]

The damage is virtually the same. The odd level 33-35 thrower like yourself isn't the only thing to consider now, but rather a possible 5-7+ people speccing to it at any given time.

[Mendro]

As old thrower I'm just telling you pure thrower is no more viable .But you're right, it's not just about damage. As you said, we will see how the community handle with it.

[San]

Throwing could very well be worse or surprise people with how all of the changes interact, just saying that the damage between those builds are the same.

[QuisUtDeus]

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The reader-friendly version


I tried to build a heavily armored warrior which could throw javelins as a main and melee as a secondary. After many a miserable failed hours of gameplay I realized that my accuracy was horrendous. I knew that being in heavy armor would hurt my throwing capabilities but I did not think that it would hurt to that extent. So I tried a loadout with moderate armor but it's still a fail!.

The skill part of it I have down because Ive gotten some insanely long archer hits with the jav, or a speeding cav rider in the back. Ok so all in all I've realized that it's not a good skill to specialize in. I'll tell you why, for one why would anyone spend 100 or 120 points in a skill where your ammo is so limited and having such a short range? You throw a few and its over, melee time. The skill has almost no value after the 30 seconds of skirmish mode is over.

Short range? makes perfect sense but why the atrocious penalty to accuracy when using such a short range weapon? I've thrown javs at archers standing still 15 feet away and they miss!! Then when you get spotted by a knight in full armor with megaathletics charging you with the speed of a monty python movie character, it's pointless to throw more than one jav unless you want to get skewered. So what are you left with? A freakload of archers because they can have 30 to 60 shots with a quick resupply from a nearby corpse and shoot at everybody all day long. That archer I hit with a really skillful throw? well he survives the hit, shoots faster than I do and manages to kill me in one shot or take 90% of my health with a body shot! seriously how is that balanced??  So you get the cookiecutter archer or the cookie cutter heavy knight with the same 4 skills.

If you have any suggestions I'll take them but there's no point at all in wasting the skill points in throw skill if you want to be a heavy or medium heavy but I assure you the archer will outshine in every way. I then checked the damage calculator and to my surprise  The heavy medium to heavy armored archer/crossbowman does more damage with a bow, has WAY more range, and at least 3 times the ammo. I don't really understand the huge damage penalty mainly. I suggest a much lower power throw penalty and armor weight penalty to WPF. It doesn't make sense that a long range (safe range) bow shot will be just as accurate and do more damage than a close range axe throw.

Movement.

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Ok so the speed athletics grants seem a little high. Maybe not so much the forward movement but the sidestep/ direction change. In other words a knight could be running towards you and sidestep superfast and still run forward while hardly missing a beat. It looks like they are having a seizure while running toward you! I understand that it slows your movement speed a bit but the side to side movement speed is unaffected. Sidesteps should slow you down otherwise you have unrealistically agile knights in full armor face hugging you and running around you in circles while spam attacking you.

Maintenance.

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Ok so I farmed a long time to build my plate armored peltast but guess what? I fell into debt because the cost was ridiculous! yes I try and offset my lack of melee skill or my preference for a non cookiecutter build by farming and gearing up. But wow! If you want to fight in plate then you better have invested the hours to learn how to be great at melee or archery because only the veterans can keep the gold rolling in against the noobs to run with supergear. Seriously are you trying to scare away the new players? This forces one to play the ultra specialized melee fighter or the Super archer with mega athletics/1-hand circle spam attack of death. If you want to have fun It'll cost you! Then again there's the hit and run tactic of Cavalry units that you can rely on for easy kills and quick cash. Put an athletics speed cap on heavy armor and be done with it. Seriously I pay enough bills at home, I don't jump on a game I enjoy but suck at to be stripped of hard earned gear just because I'm an easy kill.

Love the idea of the mod, and love the game and for the most part flippin excellent job and much appreciated for all the work put in.

Thanks Heskey

The OP really has a point here. The throwing / 1h / shield hybrid is indeed weak, efficiency wise. I played one to 33 before patch and saw others do it and .. you can do ok with it but thats not because of the awesomeness of the build to be honest.

What I noticed is that in general but especially for this build the heavy throwing weapons seem to be a really bad choice. Throwing Lances are shit for some reason, and even Jarids with the 5pt you need kind of over-extend your hybrid build.

If I had to play a 1h shield thrower again I would definitely priorize melee and then give him 3-4pt throwing with like 80wpf as side-arm and use war darts or javs +3.