Hardcore throwing lobying

[Swaggart]

Now i'm not saying that you said I threw lances at shields, but you sure fucking make it look that way.

Of course it's fucking effective against light armor. And so is every other weapon in the fucking game. Stones can kill a light armor target given ~4 decent throws. I take issue with the throwing lance - which I suspect is designed to kill high armor, doesn't do its fucking job. Not to mention you've been 1 shot by lances? How about the many fucking times I throw the lances at someone with a heavy kuyak, to have them look at me, as if they're saying "LIKE I GIVE A FUCK" and kill me because the animation takes so long. And I'm not just getting hit by the fucking things, i'm throwing them. Now correct me if i'm wrong, but if I throw the fucking things and see this quite a bit of the time, it's probably more than you dying on the off chance you actually get hit with the fucking things.

How is throwing lance melee strong. How many times have you been killed by a throwing lance thrust and thought "If this gets 30 more wpf it'll be so broken".

So you think its entirely fair that a throwing lance should 1 shot anything on the field? Even arbalests can't 1 shot everything (barring a headshot), they cant even 1 shot my measly 17 str 4 IF self, but throwing lances do. If a STR and IF heavy build can't survive a lance, then there is no point to the build, especially with the WPF changes.

Also, you seriously underestimate how much of an impact 30 more WPF will have on a 103 speed weapon, not to mention you're further diminishing the damage penalty of not having enough WPF. Besides, I already thought (pre-patch) that the melee mode was broken.

[DrTaco]

Yes, I think it's fair. If you somehow get hit with a lance the, it shouldn't matter how much plate you have, that pierce damage should kill you. An Arbalest has the ammo, accuracy, and low requirements that the comparison can't be made. There's a tradeoff between incredible strength and decent reliability. And for fucks sake 30 wpf does not make the game breaking difference. If you have trouble with the prepatch melee mode from the lances, then  I don't know what to tell you. Maybe your only hope is to get a 13 shield build and tape down the right mouse button, because you just can't block.

[Swaggart]

Yes, I think it's fair. If you somehow get hit with a lance the, it shouldn't matter how much plate you have, that pierce damage should kill you. An Arbalest has the ammo, accuracy, and low requirements that the comparison can't be made. There's a tradeoff between incredible strength and decent reliability. And for fucks sake 30 wpf does not make the game breaking difference. If you have trouble with the prepatch melee mode from the lances, then  I don't know what to tell you. Maybe your only hope is to get a 13 shield build and tape down the right mouse button, because you just can't block.

Lol ok you win dude. Make throwing lances 1 shot everything in ranged and in melee mode too.

(click to show/hide)

Of course I can block it you chromosome missing man child. The point is that ranged characters should not be effective in ranged AND melee characters at the same time. But all you care about is having a disadvantage free playing experience where you can counter anything and anyone. Thank fuck no one else is actually listening to you.

[DrTaco]

I guess that's what you resort to when you can't keep a coherent argument. Fair enough, victory for Throwing against the 2h nerdspam

[Lt_Anders]

Lol ok you win dude. Make throwing lances 1 shot everything in ranged and in melee mode too.

(click to show/hide)

Of course I can block it you chromosome missing man child. The point is that ranged characters should not be effective in ranged AND melee characters at the same time. But all you care about is having a disadvantage free playing experience where you can counter anything and anyone. Thank fuck no one else is actually listening to you.

Lances don't 1 shot shit. I use them every time, and they rarely 1 shot anything below 30 armor(30-45 is a maybe depending on speed bonus and location of impact cause arms/legs do less damage.) past 45, it takes 2. If anything, the arbalest is more fearsome than the lance.

2 hits anything(almost), has 10-15 shots, 15str requirement, only wpf.
Throwing lances in melee are equivalent to a short spear which sucks against most upper medium armors, (The most common armor) They are short and require the highest strength requirement in the game of any weapon. Period. If anything, the lance is a horrible weapon useful for 1 thing. Scaring the shit out of anyone but shielders who get near you.

[Swaggart]

I cant keep a coherent argument, yet you haven't made any except for throwing lances should be stronger because I can't 1 shot everything.

Top lel.

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[Lt_Anders]

I cant keep a coherent argument, yet you haven't made any except for throwing lances should be stronger because I can't 1 shot everything.

Top lel.

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Can't come up with an argument using facts. Makes erroneous claims, and then leaves thread.

In fact, I never made a stand on lances other than various and perceived facts about them. If anything, I'm more for making other weapons require more strength. Why should a throwing lance require the most strength in the game, yet almost no other weapon requires greater than 18?(20 for GM and LM is 18)

[Huscarlton_Banks]

Think moving it to 6 PT for more hybrid use would be good.

Someone with 12 PT and +3 lances should really be oneshotting people in medium-high armor if they have 0 IF and 18 or below strength since it's fairly likely that they'll 2-shot with jarids, but meh.

Maybe make PT WPF penalty decrease with higher ranks instead of a flat rate so that it's more like PD?

[Tydeus]

Maybe make PT WPF penalty decrease with higher ranks instead of a flat rate so that it's more like PD?

Yeah, I think that's the better solution so far.

[DrTaco]

Think moving it to 6 PT for more hybrid use would be good.

Someone with 12 PT and +3 lances should really be oneshotting people in medium-high armor if they have 0 IF and 18 or below strength since it's fairly likely that they'll 2-shot with jarids, but meh.

Maybe make PT WPF penalty decrease with higher ranks instead of a flat rate so that it's more like PD?

Hm, that sounds like a good solution.

[dontgothere]

I've been on this soap box for years and the devs only make things worse. I called it back then: they intend for throwing weapons to really only be viable as backup in certain melee builds, they don't look at throwing as its own class the way they do sword and boarders, two-handers, archers, cavalry or even xbows.

As far as I know there aren't any builds more throwing-focused than the one I use, and in this last patch I only got nerfed. I still have to invest the exact same amount of points into WM and Agi as before, and now I have 22 wpf less. I only just BARELY make the requirement for 11 PT, at 121 wpf. I play naked but now I don't even have the option to wear any "real" armor, assuming it weight lowers wpf like before.

The whole problem could be solved by getting serious about specializing the stats and functions of throwing weapons, rebalancing the types and tiers, but the only time the devs have ever changed the stats that I can recall was to nerf throwing rocks, nerf heavy throwing axes, and buff franciscas...wut?!? lol

Throwing lance shouldn't be lowered to 6 PT if what you're trying to do is get throwing to work right as its own class that people can dip a toe into at low tiers if they're hybrid or devote themselves to in order to access teh powerful shits. Keep PT requirements high for the best throwing equipment, but buff their stats so that they're actually useful. I have 11 PT and I've had throwing lance headshots fail to kill against plate helms, or take three or four lances to kill them if I land torso or limb hits, and I've had torso shots fail to one-shot archers. Throwing lances should be arbalests with faster reloads but a tiny fraction of the ammo and heavily restricted range, case closed.

There's no way to get any positive changes made to throwing balance while the devs who have been changing it are still in charge. There's a bias against throwing as it's appreciated by the people who play it. If you just post about it here they won't even read it. PM Tydeus directly on the forum or IRC telling him you don't like these changes, and use the IRC room to discuss it; they pay more attention there than to posts.

[Lt_Anders]

you can wear light armor as long as it's below 9 weight, I believe.

Also, 11 PT is on the upper end of the strength scale, and this was ment to be that way. Strength heavy got a nerf(all classes). If anything, you should be 21-27 strength max.

[Bulzur]

Even with a 21/21 dedicated thrower at lv30 (3 athletics, 0 PS, 0 IF), i still feel the randomness of throwing.


Throwing lances are just perfect against cav, against people on the ground (90% hitrate, i'll say, thanks to riders sometimes sliding into a tree/wall/box, and your throwing lance hitting that before hitting the body). It's excellent against immobile targets (aim for the body, and stop moving).

It's a good fear factor against unshielded wanderers. I don't know how many times i must have thrown lances 1 pixel out of the opponent's hitboxes...


And i also hate the ammunition/slot system with some throwing weapons (javelins and jarids, for example, still take up slots, even with 0 ammo... wich prevents you from picking a new throwing axe AND a 1h melee weapon... always drop one).

Apart from that, it's definitely fun. Being useless in melee has it's drawback. At lv32, i'll probably pump 6 points in PS...

[NJ_Legion_Icedtea]

onehitting 2h spamzergs with lances is fun for sure

I am not saying this is wrong, but just reminded me the other day when an archer got hit with a +3 throwing lance and survived, made me laugh

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

I am not saying this is wrong, but just reminded me the other day when an archer got hit with a +3 throwing lance and survived, made me laugh

...the people I've seen with 3+ throwing lances stuck in their heads...