Capture Point Siege Game Mode

[Elindor]

CAPTURE POINT SIEGE GAME MODE
A game mode for CRPG similar to Siege

I think most everyone would agree that Siege strategy most often revolves around abandoning the walls and protecting the flag (on most maps).
The single most commonly said thing in Siege is "OMG YOU *$&%$'s get to the FLAG NOW or WE LOSE"
This happens for a couple reasons:

1 - Flag can be ninja'd if not protected
2 - Walls usually are too big/have too many entry points for the defenders to protect properly.

A CAPTURE POINT SIEGE GAME MODE would allow for more varying defensive strategies and more interesting gameplay overall I think - at least as an alternative to siege, not as a replacement necessarily.

Here's how it would work.

1 - Each map would have a number of CAPTURE POINTS, as few as 2, as many as 4 or 5.  These would be things like the GATEHOUSE, 2nd GATEHOUSE, Courtyard, and of course FLAG.
2 - CAPTURE POINTS would be LOCKED until the preceding capture point was captured.  For instance, attackers could not contest the FLAG point until the GATEHOUSE point was captured.
3 -  There may be 2 or more capture points on the same sphere of capture (like a gatehouse and a postern door) - capturing BOTH would NOT be always necessary in order to progress - capturing ONLY ONE of these could unlock capture ability of the subsequent points.  This would help offense since multiple entry points would be harder for defense to protect.
* 4 * - When a CAPTURE POINT is secured, attackers can now SPAWN at that new point.  Possibly, defenders could have a choice of spawn points to spawn at as well.
5 - Capture points could be RECLAIMED by the defense, removing it from the attackers list of spawnable points, and LOCKING the subsequent points from capture again.

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BENEFITS FROM THIS : 

1 - castle walls would be much more defensible and therefore more closely mimic medieval siege combat, whereas right now most walls do not matter and most siege maps become team death match at the flag.
2 - increased strategic options
3 - more of the maps actually utilized
4 - increased team play

THINGS THAT WOULD NEED TO BE ADJUSTED FROM STANDARD SIEGE:

1 - because capture points would focus defenders to certain points (since flag couldnt be captured until gatehouse, etc were captured, no one would need to defend it at beginning of round), attackers might need MORE TIME per round.
2 - Maps would need to be adjusted and/or new maps made for this mode
3 - I am sure there are others...

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Thoughts?

[rustyspoon]

I've wanted something like this for a while, but I feel that the devs aren't that interested in siege...

[Peasant_Woman]

Yes, that would be much more like a real siege, capturing strategic positions inside the castle, fighting room to room etc.
As a side note I feel battle could use something similar, like on village maps one team being the villagers and the other bandits. Bandits want to burn your houses and steal your goods, villagers want to protect the buildings and goods until the timer runs out. Something outside random killing.

[Moncho]

As a EU siege player, I dont think this is necessary. The risk to take the backdoor straight to flag is still there, unless a big popup message said "the enemy has captured the ****", which would be a step back imo.
Right now in EU siege, maps are usually:
1st round: Backdoor or main doors get hacked (door bug, imo more important to fix than all of this)
2nd and latter rounds: GreyDRZUnion/HRE/whatever clan happens to be more in the server gets balanced together, attackin a big angry mob/defend the critical points and win, on the other team some people yell flag, try to organise the people, sometimes even win.
So i think this capture the point system would not help the gameplay at all. In most maps this is already enforced anyway if the teams use their heads (i dont know the situation in NA, so i cant say anything, but in EU this happens a lot). The attackers (if they think a bit) already try to first ninja and if that fails capture it step by step, exactly what you are suggesting, and ofc the defenders orient themselves around defending both the flag and these chokepoints
The capturing the points would also either destroy Backdoor gameplay or leave it exactly as it is, ie either make it inviable since you would still have to open the main gates disabling ninja victories (which are awesome imo), or the points would be BD then flag, which is exactly as it is now.

So yeah, it would (again, at least for EU), not really change anything at all.

[Elindor]

NA is similar Moncho, but i do think a system like this would utilize more of most siege maps. 

most maps devolve right now to flag camping, which is commonly the CORRECT defensive strategy in the current mode because the walls are too hard to defend.  therefore, siege feels like "team death match with some obstacles to climb over" rather than a castle siege.

[Moncho]

Even if most of the team stays at flag, there are always a few who sally out and fight outside the walls, some who brave their way to close the gates and delay the attackers those extra seconds that will enable victory, but i dont think that these if a guy manages to close the gate half a second before the flag is brought completely down, that should make the attacking team not be able to capture the flag, the castle is lost already, it doesnt matter if the gate is open or closed, you've already lost the castle...
Or sometimes a defender tries to sally out and fails letting an attacker get in and get to the flag without breaking the BD, why should this guy not be able to capture the castle? Sneaking in is a perfectly valid tactic (and much more efficient and useful than a bloody frontal assault). Of course you also have the griefers who open the gates for the enemy, but these usually get spotted and reported (not punished though due to the lack of siege admins, koldborns campaign goes on), but lately it is usually more the attackers opening them from inside than griefers.
And most of the maps would have the same areas used even with this method, since as i have said a few times already, it would only force people to use their heads (which if they do now they usually win or at least put a good fight), which is just dumbing the game, not a good thing imo, plus it would punish those who try something that looks impossible but that for some reason every once and then works (i remember once some time ago i just went over a wall with no defenders, got to the flag, stayed there on my own for a while, then my team won, and noone except me knew what the hell just had happened, and i can tell you, the feeling is great, that of saying you people just got pwnd)

[CrazyCracka420]

I think it's an excellent idea...would make siege much better.

I think this would be the easiest thing for dev's to implement to make siege a lot better (and more balanced on the maps).  The other idea I've heard that would be cool would be to make siege into a strategus type battle.  Add time to 15 minutes or so and have spawn flags that need to be taken down to stop the enemy from spawning.  Or else whoever kills the amount of tickets (spawns) assigned to each team would win. 

[Digglez]

capture point system is inherently flawed, just like siege because it rewards super strength builds that will be sitting on a point with no incentive to move.

conquest/stronghold is what SHOULD be getting work done.

[Elindor]

Hmm, whats the premise of those Digglez?  Im really just interested in anything that opens up some new strategies. 

[Digglez]

Hmm, whats the premise of those Digglez?  Im really just interested in anything that opens up some new strategies.

castle vs castle.  both teams need their own offense AND defense.  multiple objectives over the map, meaning if you want to be a plate tank and sit on a point, people can go around you.

[Moncho]

A bit like the dumped stronghold? That was extremely fun

[WolfGang_ATLSwwag]

I think his aiming at somthing like rush from Battlefield

[Digglez]

I think his aiming at somthing like rush from Battlefield

sounds good, but I would definitely want multiple objectives at once, so 1 spot cant be camped

[CrazyCracka420]

sounds good, but I would definitely want multiple objectives at once, so 1 spot cant be camped

Oh right, that's what I thought would happen with capture points (or how I imagined it).  But I guess you would need new maps, would suck that one team's "base" is a castle, and the other is an attack spawn point.

Having 2 cap points active at all times (and it moves when one is captured) would be ideal in my mind, but you would need "strongholds" for each teams main base.