New ranged change

[Fartface]

Have you ever seen archers play without protection and teamplay.
They wil get abosuletely devastated, there an big part of the battlefield and strong when used smart but crpg usualy lacks the teamplay to finish them.
How hard is it to take 2 point away from wm or if and get 2 shield? I still see almost all 2handers and polearmers without an shield.
But archers are at there best if they use teamplay great like an crossfire, or an line of archers protected by inf.
But if you got fail teamplay by the enemy team and good by yours you can just let the shielders walk first and you wil stay behind them.
Yes the archers might make like 2 -3 kills then but when you managed to get close its an slaughterparty for your team.
My point in crpg you cant take down that archer easily without teamplay but just like every class it also gots hit counter go 12/24 shielder or cav:D

[Fartface]

I'd rather have that than these random prepatch "strolling around... bam! 80% from a random str-archer".

Also, it makes the choice of helmet more of a style-thing which is great :p

I stopped wearing helmets since patch lol.

[Taser]

Wear a felt cap or a hood for the lulz. Felt cap crew.

[Overdriven]

For the HA maybe... If you're a lamer who wants your class to be totally immune to 2/3 of the playerbase 

Going dragoon style to me at least seems more reasonable. You still have the HUGE advantage over foot archers of being able to run away from all infantry without effort, but the style at least requires you to have some basic situational awareness. And from my point of view regular HA's were kind of fine balance-wise before the "nerf" (because, as said if you go dragoon style with a more agi-orientated build, you can get closer to your target than any footarcher and score headshots) but 1. they were too annoying and 2. loomed ha's were not fine (I got 3/4-shotted by fricking HA's on several occations, not balanced).

Nononononono. NO.

Why do people think that warband should be some R>P>S bullshit?

"Looks like you picked the wrong class, sorry but you're completely fucked now"

NO!

2/3 of the playerbase how? You're more susceptible to cav, because you're in the cav fight at speed, more susceptible to infantry because moving at speed means corrections are a lot harder to make quickly if inf appears and you have to ride close to actually hit them. Yes archers have a hard time hitting you, but it's still perfectly doable as you have to come in close to kill them.

Dragoon style to me just seems to ruin the class. Who wants to play an HA dragoon style when you should be doing it like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPKgSC7JPIk .

Or even faster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ralvcO6bAoE

In my opinion going dragoon style needs far less situational awareness. You are moving slowly or not at all, don't overly have many threats as you can just move slightly out of the way of anything all the time. Riding at speed provides more opportunity for screwing up, people to catch you off guard ect and that's part of the fun.

2h, pikes, archers, hoplites...they are all annoying in their own situation. HA has been nerfed already and in no way was it OP. Not even loomed HA were. Those HA's were evidently using bodkins. But most can't because it's crippling for upkeep with the horse ect on top. If they were using barbs or even tartars it would have taken more. Which is why the nerf for horse archery was not needed in anyway though we seem to agree on that in part at least. It's a class that was already screwed over a while back and tbh was in about as good a place as it could be for balance.

It's still very situational, skill based, prepartion based, environmental based. There's always a chance for the 2h. But you're delusional if you think everything can be balanced for everything else to have a fair chance. It's pretty much impossible to do so due to the sheer number of builds. Now if you throw a good vs average ect ect then things can mix it up. But the archer in that situation should have the advantage and should be able to, on paper, kill the 2h. Doesn't mean it's going to happen though.

But that's part of the issue...if people think that everything should be able to fight everything fairly, it would explain why everthing gets nerfed constantly. It's a hopeless dream.

[rufio]

all we need now is to nerf draw speed, and give archers a movement speed cap. remove polestun, nerf pike stabspeeds and finally the game will be ballanced

[Tzar]

all we need now is to nerf draw speed, and give archers a movement speed cap. remove polestagger, nerf pike stabspeeds and finally the game will be ballanced

Pretty 100% correct there Rufio thumbs up. 

[Dezilagel]

2/3 of the playerbase how? You're more susceptible to cav, because you're in the cav fight at speed, more susceptible to infantry because moving at speed means corrections are a lot harder to make quickly if inf appears and you have to ride close to actually hit them. Yes archers have a hard time hitting you, but it's still perfectly doable as you have to come in close to kill them.

Dragoon style to me just seems to ruin the class. Who wants to play an HA dragoon style when you should be doing it like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPKgSC7JPIk .

Or even faster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ralvcO6bAoE

In my opinion going dragoon style needs far less situational awareness. You are moving slowly or not at all, don't overly have many threats as you can just move slightly out of the way of anything all the time. Riding at speed provides more opportunity for screwing up, people to catch you off guard ect and that's part of the fun.

2h, pikes, archers, hoplites...they are all annoying in their own situation. HA has been nerfed already and in no way was it OP. Not even loomed HA were. Those HA's were evidently using bodkins. But most can't because it's crippling for upkeep with the horse ect on top. If they were using barbs or even tartars it would have taken more. Which is why the nerf for horse archery was not needed in anyway though we seem to agree on that in part at least. It's a class that was already screwed over a while back and tbh was in about as good a place as it could be for balance.

It's still very situational, skill based, prepartion based, environmental based. There's always a chance for the 2h. But you're delusional if you think everything can be balanced for everything else to have a fair chance. It's pretty much impossible to do so due to the sheer number of builds. Now if you throw a good vs average ect ect then things can mix it up. But the archer in that situation should have the advantage and should be able to, on paper, kill the 2h. Doesn't mean it's going to happen though.

But that's part of the issue...if people think that everything should be able to fight everything fairly, it would explain why everthing gets nerfed constantly. It's a hopeless dream.

1. If you somehow manages to get killed by melee inf as HA, then you fucked up. Badly.

2. I want it to be as fair as possible, I understand perfect balance is not possible ofc, but it's pretty simple to make sure every class stands a chance. Forcing HA to slow down to shoot efficiently would accomplish that. They still would be next to immune to melee infantry, but they'd have to expose themselves to lancers.

3. It's your notion of "should" annoys me. Yeah sure you might find it great fun to zoom around the battlefield playing a jetfighter midst comparably stationary targets, but how is that fair/fun to them? "Fighting" a HA is the most frustrating thing to do as melee infantry. You ffectively stand no chance and all you're doing is hoping to delay him for as long as possible until he either gets sick of shooting you or just for the purpose of delaying him. That's why I like the idea of slowing down to shoot. You still have the battlefield mobility, you still have the positional advantage but you're forced to actually expose yourself for a second. How close do you dare to go? Risk vs. reward. And don't give me any bs about how avoiding inf is hard as a HA. You can virtually ignore them if you just plan half a step ahead.

[MrShine]

all we need now is to nerf draw speed, and give archers a movement speed cap. remove polestagger, nerf pike stabspeeds and finally the game will be ballanced

Increase archer damage, missile speed, and accuracy and I would be ok with most of this.   Except for the movement speed cap thing... perhaps have some sort of slowdown with a bow out... but don't just 'cap' their speed.

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

I find a shield makes dealing with a ha fine  GK ha's have tried and tried to get rid of my hoplite build but they cant do shit about it, lancers get some good hits in if I am distracted.

Ha are no where near as accurate as standard archers so the concept that infantry should fear them seems ridiculous to me... just hold you shield up if you arnt in combat and dont let the ha flank you. If you are in combat a ha's accuracy means hes just as likely to hit your opponent as he is you. Even if you dont have a shield, dodging arrows isnt overly difficult, do the 'just try and hit me dance'.

[Overdriven]

1. If you somehow manages to get killed by melee inf as HA, then you fucked up. Badly.

2. I want it to be as fair as possible, I understand perfect balance is not possible ofc, but it's pretty simple to make sure every class stands a chance. Forcing HA to slow down to shoot efficiently would accomplish that. They still would be next to immune to melee infantry, but they'd have to expose themselves to lancers.

3. It's your notion of "should" annoys me. Yeah sure you might find it great fun to zoom around the battlefield playing a jetfighter midst comparably stationary targets, but how is that fair/fun to them? "Fighting" a HA is the most frustrating thing to do as melee infantry. You ffectively stand no chance and all you're doing is hoping to delay him for as long as possible until he either gets sick of shooting you or just for the purpose of delaying him. That's why I like the idea of slowing down to shoot. You still have the battlefield mobility, you still have the positional advantage but you're forced to actually expose yourself for a second. How close do you dare to go? Risk vs. reward. And don't give me any bs about how avoiding inf is hard as a HA. You can virtually ignore them if you just plan half a step ahead.

Situational once again. Village maps with little open space are pretty easy to die by melee from if there's enough of them.

Playing my HA now. Several people have commented how long it's taking me to take down destriers. I put 9 arrows into one and that was with a headshot included. Also I used 18 arrows on 2 guys with red tunic over mail to kill them (those are the arrows that hit). One of them I finished with a head shot.

Funny thing is there was an HA slowing down to shoot...I just rode circles round him on my courser and pumped him full of arrows. And that's what I mean. Dragoon HA is good for some things, like packing a punch on inf. But for what HA is useful for (taking down cav) it now currently sucks balls. Right now cav is going largely unchecked except for the odd pikemen because ranged is so useless. I used about 40 arrows that hit in one round on a desert map all against horses and only downed one. That was with some horse headshots included as well. Pre nerf I would have been able to take down 4-5.

It's frustrating sure. But HA's dont pack much of a punch. They didn't before the nerf and they REALLY don't now. They are annoying, frustrating but dangerous? Only if they are very persistant. But it's unlikely that an HA vs melee at the end of a round will win. Right now the risk is also there. If you are moving fast your accuracy is bad, you have to ride close to melee, often on the very edge of their weapon range in order to score hit after hit. One slip, missed arrow, midjudgement or well timed attack from the melee and they will have a hit on you as you have to rely on scoring an arrow hit to stun them and prevent them from attacking.

It's a misconception that HA don't risk much. Due to the accuracy we are forced to in order to get the hits. But if the accuracy is bad, then the damage should be better. Or vice versa. If you slow down to shoot, you don't need to go close. That's the point. Dragoon HA can sit at range and get as many hits as a foot archer. The risky HA are the ones who ride at speed and need the close ranged swooping attacks to get the hits. I'd say dragoon HA actually risk far less due to the better accuracy from slowing down. But again that's build dependent.

[bonekuukkeli]

He just wants to catch up HA next. Something that melee can't do, they whine about.

I sense some serious l2p issues here.

I don't understand why melee should ever be able to challenge HA unless they hide, wait around corners etc (what people do all the time and it works quite well).

Also... lancer can catch HA if he uses his brain or invests enough in riding skill. When you ride behind someone, you can always take shorter route when HA tries to turn. It's not really that hard to dodge arrow HA is trying to shoot, just move to "dead angle" and it's easy. And following someone around like idiot who you can't catch... let him go, try something else.

But yes, let's hear more whining till this nice thing in this game is nerfed to ground as well. Less challenge, more fun for melee heroes.

[Overdriven]

He just wants to catch up HA next. Something that melee can't do, they whine about.

I sense some serious l2p issues here.

I don't understand why melee should ever be able to challenge HA unless they hide, wait around corners etc (what people do all the time and it works quite well).

Also... lancer can catch HA if he uses his brain or invests enough in riding skill. When you ride behind someone, you can always take shorter route when HA tried to turn.

But yes, let's hear more whining till this nice thing in this game is nerfed to ground as well. Less challenge, more fun for melee heroes.

There's enough lancers these days as well that it's very easy to pin an HA in. 3 lancers can quite easily catch an HA and kill him something that happens quite often to HA who get embroiled in the cav fight.

Edit:
Just found a second HA who slows down to shoot. Guess what...he died to. Several times from me and others from lancers. He can't keep up in a high speed fight and if he stops then I just circle him endlessly shotgunning him. Thats not to say they don't have their uses. But HA is a great counter to lancers and right now that's a very difficult role due to the damage nerf and dragoon HA simply can't fill it. I also have some screens of horse headshots which really should kill but didn't.