The Two Handed Swordsman R.I.P.

[Lt_Anders]

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Yeah, I could, but it doesn't look as cool.  Truthfully that's all the warcleaver really is though, a great axe minus the bonus to shields:

War Cleaver   5046   
weight 3.5
requirement 13
spd rtng 92
weapon length 120
swing damage 43, cut
thrust damage 0 cut
Can't use on horseback
Unbalanced

Great Axe   3247   
weight 3.25
requirement 14
spd rtng 94
weapon length 96
swing damage 43, cut
thrust damage 0 pierce
Can't use on horseback
Unbalanced
Bonus against Shield

Really it trades shield bonus and speed for a bit of extra reach.  I may just buy the great axe now that I stare at the side by side comparison directly.

It's cheaper adn weighs less.
Personally, that's one of the few swords i've never used(war cleaver). It just doesn't appeal to me. Looks more like something from the shivering isles oblivion expansion...

[Miley]

This is not the case on the North American servers : o

[Gorath]

It's cheaper adn weighs less.
Personally, that's one of the few swords i've never used(war cleaver). It just doesn't appeal to me. Looks more like something from the shivering isles oblivion expansion...

Well the appeal is a matter of taste so to each their own.   
I like the look of it because of that whole medieval Jason Vorhees thing and the War Cleaver looks like a giant machete, so it fits that theme.  But you're right, the axe is cheaper, faster, weighs less, gets a bonus vs shields and does the same damage.  It's just a little shorter.  And in the sword department, while losing 3 cut damage the Miadao is probably a much better lolstab-less sword than the cleaver, since it's not unbalanced (and faster as well).  Ah well, the sacrifices we make in the name of style.

[RandomDude]

You're a priority target. Plus, you fight in the frontlines...

lol i dont fight in the front lines too much any more its too risky

cans i not have the armour of "no shooty shooty or i smashy smashy"?

[Banok]

turtles own 2h sword
2h sword owns crusher
crusher owns turtle

its a rock paper scissors balance.

but yeah if you go poleaxe then you have slight disadvantage vs above but no true weakness. s'why its dumb when ppl complain about crushers because they are dedicated char's with lots of weaknesses.

[Rogue]

lol i dont fight in the front lines too much any more its too risky

cans i not have the armour of "no shooty shooty or i smashy smashy"?

But you ARE a priority target, I have to kick you every time I see you.

[Noely]

... because they are dedicated char's with lots of weaknesses.

most people who make dedicated chars know what their getting into most of the whine comes from people with balanced builds, who never are better than anyone and therefore qq

[krampe]

turtles own 2h sword
2h sword owns crusher
crusher owns turtle

its a rock paper scissors balance.

Some people get kinda fetished with that triumvirate thingy.
Every of those playstyles can own any of the others, just depends on the player.

[Elmetiacos]

Ok. I am a polearm, and my next retirement I am going 2h. 2h is not dead, nowhere even close to it, adapt to the changing battlefield and tactics. Just because it isn't OP SPAM SPAM SPAM does not mean it is dead.

I'm afraid quite a lot of the remaining two hand users are spammers. On Monday I watched a group of four, two on each team, frantically trying to spam each other to death at the end of a round.

Wait did they just nerf the great maul in the latest patch cuz I was playing with it yesterday and it seemed to do fine.

Was making a balanced 2 hander either 18/18 or 21/15, switching between a great maul and bastard sword or war cleaver.  Lure the shielders in with my sword then quick switch and loloverhead smash!!

The pre-patch Great Maul used to have 83 or 85 speed (I think) and it was cut to 80. With the lower wpf everyone has since the patch, that makes it much harder to use. If you've done well with it, you've just been lucky; enemies who know what they're doing will spam you to death the moment you reveal yourself as a lolhammerer.

[Dexxtaa]

I do alright x)

[Michael]

there's no way to counter the shield unless you're a Str build with very high PS, so you throw away your sword for an axe or switch to a polearm. The usual two hander build feels like it's no longer viable: pre-patch I could sometimes top the kills table and still did well enough at first after the patch but now the ground has shifted and I generally get more deaths than kills these days

Oh cmon, 2h is still totally easy to play.

Proof

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http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3351/nodachirules.jpg

I used the Nodachi because my low level char hadnt the strength for German Greatsword. I had no money for armor neither. First generation low level char.

I deleted this alt because I had no fun once I reached level 20 or something too easy. 


Seriously, you people crush my head. Whine whine whine...................cry cry cry..........................=(

Good 2hs are always on the top of the scoreboard, so hard is it..............

[Ozwan]

turtles own 2h sword
2h sword owns crusher
crusher owns turtle

its a rock paper scissors balance.

I dont find it true to be honest. If I had to make a r-p-s scheme I'd say its

polearms > shields
2h > polearms
shields > 2h

Somewhere inbetween there there are crushthroughs, which are so situational that it cant be really counted as a all-round class. Obviously, 2h can use their short bardiches or short axes vs. shields but its all pretty much weak imitation of polearms. What is to be added is that of course shielders are the only class invulnerable to ranged while maintaining combat effectivenes. C

[Rextard]

What makes you think shielders are immune to ranged?

    This idea that shields make people immune to ranged is ridiculous. Unless you have a shield out and a shield on your back, you're always vulnerable on the side your shield isn't on. I play 1h+shield with archery as secondary skill. Even with a shield up, if you don't have it at the right height you can get hit in the head, and irrespective of shield you can get hit in the legs.  I've had my round cavalry shield broken by one throwing axe. That's 200 shield hp gone in one ranged attack. And I've been killed by arrows to the back plenty of times while my shield was out. I've also had the same shield destroyed by 2 swings of a 2handed axe. Far as I can tell from personal experience shields don't stop you from getting knocked down either. And there's breakthrough, which is only "situational" if the weapon (read barmace) isn't heirloomed.

Not to mention 2h fighters still have multiple weapon slots like everyone else. Don't want to get caught in your pet peeve situation? Carry something on the side to get you out of it.

    Using a shield means you always have to worry about when it's going to break. Especially if you haven't plowed sp into the skill because as soon as it breaks you're stunned and fatally exposed. Plenty of 2hand fighters have big ass shields just for approaching under ranged fire. Also since shield is a skill and not a weapon proficiency, it's not really a proper description of any particular weapon-archetypal characters.

I think the constant analogizing of this game to rock paper scissors is not doing it any favors, because it simply isn't rock paper scissors. People are restricting themselves to these archetypes, the game isn't. No one said you had to put all your wpf eggs in one basket.