Re enable the lock stagger for melee hits.

[Dezilagel]

Less hoplites in melee = good imho...

What they need to do is to revert the turnspeed nerf so stabs become reliable to hit and chamber again.

[Gravoth_iii]

I agree on removing the turnrate nerf. But still, i feel poking weapons have been overnerfed now, the small stagger they had was enough to create space between you and the enemy. Now even if you land a hit on someone they can just keep facehugging, and facehugging leads to glances.. glance glance glance..
Teamfights are just a mess now, more than before. Im lucky if i get out of one without getting teamhit/teamhitting someone because everyone is so slippery now.

[Teeth]

Getting stopped dead everytime you get hit with a polearm usually meant you had no chance when up against superior numbers. Because of increased blocking skill and lowered deadliness of combat the game has moved towards being a numbers game. Nerfing ganking is one of the most important things that need to be done and this change went a little ways towards doing it and I applaud it.

I agree on removing the turnrate nerf. But still, i feel poking weapons have been overnerfed now, the small stagger they had was enough to create space between you and the enemy. Now even if you land a hit on someone they can just keep facehugging, and facehugging leads to glances.. glance glance glance..
Teamfights are just a mess now, more than before. Im lucky if i get out of one without getting teamhit/teamhitting someone because everyone is so slippery now.

Ctrl-M until people learn to be more careful. People getting ganked can have success because people are horrible at ganking and very killhungry. You shouldn't adapt the game because of bad players. Also, wat, poking weapons are still the most OP weapon group in the game.

[QuisUtDeus]

Ctrl-M until people learn to be more careful. People getting ganked can have success because people are horrible at ganking and very killhungry. You shouldn't adapt the game because of bad players. Also, wat, poking weapons are still the most OP weapon group in the game.

Really? Did you try to play with Ashwood + Shield lately, Teeth? If you did not and you want to have a bad time, go ahead and do so. Polearm builds were generally made way weaker with the last patch, especially hoplites, but the weapon class it affects most are longer spears. It is good that 2d poles are made weaker because awlpike and ashwood were hilarious before in 2h mode, however with a shield, the situation is a different one.

If you take into account that now pretty much every weapon can rear horses, and that the sweetspot change affects longer weapons more, this means a substantial nerf for the ashwood hoplite. There is no situation at all right now in which i would choose the ashwood over a shorter spear, like "spear" or "warspear".

Edit: I agree with the general idea of reworking the thrust animation, since it should need some kind of skill to play a stabby weapon. However I do agree with Gravoth that it was overdone.

[Gurnisson]

There is no situation at all right now in which i would choose the ashwood over a shorter spear, like "spear" or "warspear".

 

[Sniger]

imo i think this is a good examble of how realism may ruin gameplay

is there still more polearms/2h than shielders?

(havent voted)

[Kafein]

In my opinion all melee weapons should get a compensation for this stagger removal. And this compensation shouldn't be more stagger. It should be the one that has been needed since forever now.

Making melee weapons able to kill stuff again. Instead of slowing withering people down one HP at a time.

[Tydeus]

In my opinion all melee weapons should get a compensation for this stagger removal. And this compensation shouldn't be more stagger. It should be the one that has been needed since forever now.

Making melee weapons able to kill stuff again. Instead of slowing withering people down one HP at a time.

+1 speed to the slower weapons is a step in that direction. It doesn't go as far as I'd like, ideally I'd want +1 speed for 98 and below, +2 for 94 and below and +3 for 89 and below, from what we had(with a few exceptions here and there, obviously). Still, it helps make the more deadly weapons fun and viable again. There's some other stuff that we'd like to do along these lines, but they're harder to implement.

[Kafein]

+1 speed to the slower weapons is a step in that direction. It doesn't go as far as I'd like, ideally I'd want +1 speed for 98 and below, +2 for 94 and below and +3 for 89 and below, from what we had(with a few exceptions here and there, obviously). Still, it helps make the more deadly weapons fun and viable again. There's some other stuff that we'd like to do along these lines, but they're harder to implement.

I don't think that's the good way to do things. Like, at all. Slow, high damage, long weapons are already very popular precisely because of their high damage and length, which combined can more than compensate for the illusory "slowness" of having low speed rating. Every weapon, every single melee weapon is fast when you use it correctly. Or rather, abuse it correctly. And I'm sure you know this already. It's not even that hard to spam people with a long maul, that thing hits like a truck even before speed rating enters into play, because it has high blunt damage. It's the same thing with every powerful weapon, regardless of speed. Hitting first is only about being the first to make your weapon model collide the enemy, and the player is always in full control of that. If you learn to turn around to make your weapon collide exactly when it should, you will hit very hard, very fast, with any high damage weapon.

In my opinion, making those "broken" weapons (broken as in relying on engine weaknesses to be effective) even more broken by giving them more speed will just make them easier to use for people that don't really know how to use them and that's it. Perhaps more importantly, increasing their speed will make them easier to block with, actually decreasing the lethality of melee a little bit more.


Instead of this (I want to say bullshit), what about actually increasing the lethality of melee combat and increasing damage.

It seems you want to make it easier to hit people. But there's really no problem with that currently. Every player lowers their guard at some point. The problem is that with the average builds and armors these days, you have to hit enemies an absurd amount of times to kill them, even if they are literally the worst player ever. That's the real problem. If someone is bad enough to get hit 1, 2 or 3 times in melee, that should be enough to make them die in most circumstances. So no, increasing speed ratings is not a step in the right direction, not at all.

[Gurnisson]

snip

I know you're a fan of 1h weapons, and to be completely honest, it's easier to spam people with Broad One Handed Battle Axe and Elite Scimitar than it is with the likes of Long Axe, Longsword or Dadao. Arabian Cavalry Sword is rough to spam with though, I'll agree with that!

[San]

^Disagree Gurnisson. I find the speed stat and then the speed:length ratio pretty representative of what can be spammed. But personally I find nothing wrong with increasing the speed on those weapons as long as it's a sweeping change.

After experiencing this new polearm stun, I like the change, but a few polearms with weak swings need to be buffed a little more. It seems pretty good for the dueling/swing oriented polearms, though.

[Kafein]

I know you're a fan of 1h weapons, and to be completely honest, it's easier to spam people with Broad One Handed Battle Axe and Elite Scimitar than it is with the likes of Long Axe, Longsword or Dadao. Arabian Cavalry Sword is rough to spam with though, I'll agree with that!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the likes of BSS, leet spammitar or liuweidaidwoaidoi aren't fast, those weapons are extremely fast. Maybe even a little bit too fast. But my point is that even though it's easier with fast 1h because they have better speed ratings, there's nothing preventing a good player to be just as fast with the likes of miaodao, glaive, bar mace, you name it. Like I said, this speed buff will just make it a little bit easier to hit for those that don't abuse early hits.

I think all melee weapons should get a damage increase, including weapons like the longsword or LWA. In my opinion this is not about balance between melee weapons but rather a necessity to increase the risk and reward of melee combat. And decreasing the amount of time two players at full health need to be fighting before one or the other actually dies.